[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites

Fri Dec 3 14:02:58 EST 2010

I think it was simple misunderstanding. All my post was intended to point out is that the NASA announcement was not going to increase prices, but if there was an increase it would likely be due to smart marketing.

As for comments directed you (Greg H) as I said in my email sorry if you think they were but they were not.
THIS is what I was commenting on...

"Jim, I can understand the need to suspend sales of NWA 998 until further notice.
I can hear the researchers and paleontologists chanting "Drill Baby, Drill" as they are knocking down your door to get at some of those micro-fossils.
Astrobiologists will be scampering for pieces once they figure out how
fossil-rich this Nakhlite is. Too bad there are a lot of posers claiming to have found alien life forms to gain press, fame and money. It will cheapen the experience when the real deal is studied more, accepted and announced following proper protocol.
As for me, several requests for pieces of NWA 998 have come in. Sorry, I only have a few milligrams left other than the main mass which will not be cut
again.
Best Regards,
Adam"

"Listees.......
Sales of my remaining specimens of NWA 998 have been suspended until further notice.
Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038
http://www.catchafallingstar.com/"

Right after these two posts from Adam - one from 6:22 and the other from 19 minutes later...

"It must have leaked out that NWA 998 is the most fossil-rich meteorite ever
found or perhaps they found some more in other Nahklites.
http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on-mars.html
It will be interesting to hear what the big boys have to say.
Adam"

"Many believe that extraterrestrial proof of life will come this year by way of
Martian Nahklite meteorites.
http://skymania.com/wp/2010/01/proof-of-martians-will-come-this-year.html
Maybe NASA is getting the jump on all of the recent posers who are making
similar claims.
Happy Hunting,
Adam"

So as you can see, YOU (GregH) were not even thought about.
Last Im going to say on this.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites

--- On Fri, 12/3/10, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:

> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 10:34 AM
> Hi there,
> 
> Well Phil, we simply don't know it - aaand that's why we
> have to look for
> it!
> 
> I see also a nice side-effect in the press conference by
> NASA - some
> advertizing, always necessary to get the budgets passed.
> Remember - the
> announcement of the supposed fossil remnants in ALH84001,
> even by president
> Clinton - when did it take place?  And when started
> the great Martian
> renaissance with all these incredible successful orbiters
> and rovers?
> And if you keep in mind, that sample-return-mission
> projected, if it will be
> realized, will be after the ISS and the space shuttle
> missions, the most
> expensive mission, the most costly planetary space-probe
> ever.
> Hopefully it will be done.  And until then, we have to
> take potluck with the
> Martian meteorites we have already.
> 
> hi Greg & Greg,
> 
> could you please reconcile your differences off-list?
> 
> Greg H. - I guess Greg C. simply didn't get the joke,
> because he isn't aware
> of the funny story of Haag, Zagami and ALH84001.
> 
> And Greg C.
> I know that you sometimes support the notion, that we're
> all in meteorites
> only for the money.
> 
> Though the meteorite prices are not endangered by new
> scientific recoveries.
> Much more they are endangered, because still some
> meteoricists and some
> clerks haven't recognized yet the direct correlation of
> find
> rates/availability of meteorites and the legal situation in
> the countries,
> they were and shall be found.
> You can observe already now the step-back and the regress
> in newly found
> material due to always new restrictions. Check the
> bulletins, what for a
> decline we have the very last 3 years in newly recovered
> unpaired
> planetaries.
> And regarding especially the Martians, I'm not sure how
> long you're in
> meteorites, but they already doubled, tripled, quadrupled
> in price during
> the last 4 years, because of that.
> 
> And sooner or later, the collectors, hunters and dealers
> won't know anymore,
> how they still should supply the universities and museums
> further, with
> affordable, but rare and scientifically significant new
> materials.
> And really the least university institutes are in such a
> likewise
> comfortable financial situation like e.g. the Smithsonian
> or London - but
> nevertheless are urgently wanting to work on such
> materials.
> And we all agree, the more scientists have the opportunity
> to do their
> research on a meteorite - the better.
> 
> So Greg C. - you have to appeal with your worries not to
> Jim or Greg H.,
> but to such people like Dr.Bevan, the successor of al
> Kathiri, Dr.Chennaoui,
> Dr.Zuccolotto, Dr.Planche, (or in your country, those who
> initiated these
> new BLM-land restrictions) and others, who seem to actively
> support the ban
> of  private involvement and with that the ban of new
> meteoritic recoveries..
> 
> ..and thus tossing not only the national meteorite research
> of their
> countries into a crisis, but global meteoritics too. Thus,
> in the end they
> are restricting the freedom of research.
> They urgently need some enlightenment about that, what
> they're doing and the
> consequences, which they are not able to see. I really
> hope, that this topic
> will be on the agenda at the next MetSoc meeting in Perth.
>  
> Because today we have already very often the situation,
> that the important
> new recoveries of special meteorites are gladly welcome by
> all meteorite
> researchers, but on the other hand and in the same breath
> some scientists,
> not so seldom even some, who work on these very meteorites
> or use the
> results of the work on these meteorites done by colleagues,
> claim these very
> finds to be products of criminal activities and call the
> finders and those
> persons involved to bring the stones into the labs and
> institutional
> collections criminals.
> 
> If we don't manage to resolve this pervert schizophrenia -
> and that
> immediately -
> then the meteorite research in that extent and quality, we
> were used to the
> last two decades - won't have any future.
> 
> And Greg C., it is easy to forecast, that absolutely
> independently from
> whether E.T.'s car key of his spacecraft will be found in a
> Martian
> meteorite or not,
> that in 5 years we'll have 1000% surcharges on the prices
> we had the last
> decade,
> and not only on Martians but on quite all meteorites - and
> even more
> precarious, we won't then have anymore that variety of
> those new meteorites,
> which are exceptional and important for meteorite science,
> if we don't stop and partially reverse that trend.
> 
> Huh Greg C., simple & very little example from
> yesterday, take that EL4
> we're blowing out as our X-mas gratification for the
> collectors,
> 10 bucks a gram, still very nice chondrules
> - in the coming years you simply can forget such a price
> and such a stone at
> all.
> Antarctica isn't really an alternative - in 34 years only
> 200grams found of
> such.
> And else 6 finds from the hot deserts, mainly as a result
> of the enormous
> work, the private sector had done.
> Historically seen - you know it, the two DaGs cost minimum
> 15 times more,
> or if you go to the ELs in general - it's not so hefty
> weathered like the
> classics Happy Canyon, Yilmia or that stone, with which
> everything began a
> decade ago, NWA 002 and what for prices you have to pay for
> them, you know
> too.
> 
> (Sooo, and to turn back to the title line, to crimp more
> advertizing in that
> posting, cause we're all in only for the mammon and finally
> to calm your
> fears Greg C. about the Martian prices to come,
> we'll distribute after the little EL4 main mass will have
> gone, the very
> last two slices of 4925, quite the wildest and most
> colorful shergottite of
> all, that with the pseudo-orangettes - but not here on the
> list - and that
> at the prices we had years ago).
> 
> Martian greetings!
> Martin
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> Im Auftrag von
> JoshuaTreeMuseum
> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2010 06:11
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
> 
> I'm pretty sure the raison d'etre behind the Mars Missions
> is to look for 
> life or signs of biological activity. I know they're
> looking for water, but 
> why? Could it be because 70 to 90% of a living organism is
> water? Water is 
> the prime ingredient and habitat for life. Something like
> 80% of all Earth 
> fossils are marine. From the very beginning, they've been
> looking for signs 
> of life. The search for water is a subset of the main goal
> of looking for 
> life.  Mariner 4 calculated that liquid water could
> not exist on Mar's 
> surface. The Viking orbiters were looking for signs of
> ancient water to 
> determine if life could have existed in the Martian past.
> Since they figured
> 
> out that multicellular life was a no go, the Viking probes
> went to Mars in 
> the 1970s to specifically look for single-celled organisms
> and organic 
> matter. The Phoenix lander of 2008 had two goals: look for
> life supporting 
> habitable zones and of course, to look for geologic signs
> of water. All the 
> future Mars missions on the drawing board have one purpose.
> To look for 
> signs of life! So far none of the evidence has met the
> criteria and 
> parameters for exo-biologic origin. Humans are a lonely
> herd. We just can't 
> believe that we're all alone. It's hard to accept that the
> closest, most 
> Earth-like planet we can imagine is a cold, desolate,
> lifeless place.
> 
> -----------------------------
> Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people
> have. (SW)
> 
> 
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> ----------------------------
> 
> 
> 
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