[meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites

[Greg Hupe]

GregC,

I still take exception with what appears to be your accusation that  
'some' people were conspiring to create a supply and demand sales  
gimmick for NWA 998. I guess Jim and Adam can decide if they feel the  
same way.

Best Regards,
Greg Hupe

On Dec 3, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com 
 > wrote:

> I think it was simple misunderstanding. All my post was intended to  
> point out is that the NASA announcement was not going to increase  
> prices, but if there was an increase it would likely be due to smart  
> marketing.
>
> As for comments directed you (Greg H) as I said in my email sorry if  
> you think they were but they were not.
> THIS is what I was commenting on...
>
> "Jim, I can understand the need to suspend sales of NWA 998 until  
> further notice.
> I can hear the researchers and paleontologists chanting "Drill Baby,  
> Drill" as they are knocking down your door to get at some of those  
> micro-fossils.
> Astrobiologists will be scampering for pieces once they figure out how
> fossil-rich this Nakhlite is. Too bad there are a lot of posers  
> claiming to have found alien life forms to gain press, fame and  
> money. It will cheapen the experience when the real deal is studied  
> more, accepted and announced following proper protocol.
> As for me, several requests for pieces of NWA 998 have come in.  
> Sorry, I only have a few milligrams left other than the main mass  
> which will not be cut
> again.
> Best Regards,
> Adam"
>
> "Listees.......
> Sales of my remaining specimens of NWA 998 have been suspended until  
> further notice.
> Jim Strope
> 421 Fourth Street
> Glen Dale, WV  26038
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/"
>
> Right after these two posts from Adam - one from 6:22 and the other  
> from 19 minutes later...
>
> "It must have leaked out that NWA 998 is the most fossil-rich  
> meteorite ever
> found or perhaps they found some more in other Nahklites.
> http://skymania.com/wp/2010/04/new-meteorite-clues-to-life-on- 
> mars.html
> It will be interesting to hear what the big boys have to say.
> Adam"
>
> "Many believe that extraterrestrial proof of life will come this  
> year by way of
> Martian Nahklite meteorites.
> http://skymania.com/wp/2010/01/proof-of-martians-will-come-this-year.html
> Maybe NASA is getting the jump on all of the recent posers who are  
> making
> similar claims.
> Happy Hunting,
> Adam"
>
> So as you can see, YOU (GregH) were not even thought about.
> Last Im going to say on this.
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Fri, 12/3/10, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>  
> wrote:
>
>> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 10:34 AM
>> Hi there,
>>
>> Well Phil, we simply don't know it - aaand that's why we
>> have to look for
>> it!
>>
>> I see also a nice side-effect in the press conference by
>> NASA - some
>> advertizing, always necessary to get the budgets passed.
>> Remember - the
>> announcement of the supposed fossil remnants in ALH84001,
>> even by president
>> Clinton - when did it take place?  And when started
>> the great Martian
>> renaissance with all these incredible successful orbiters
>> and rovers?
>> And if you keep in mind, that sample-return-mission
>> projected, if it will be
>> realized, will be after the ISS and the space shuttle
>> missions, the most
>> expensive mission, the most costly planetary space-probe
>> ever.
>> Hopefully it will be done.  And until then, we have to
>> take potluck with the
>> Martian meteorites we have already.
>>
>> hi Greg & Greg,
>>
>> could you please reconcile your differences off-list?
>>
>> Greg H. - I guess Greg C. simply didn't get the joke,
>> because he isn't aware
>> of the funny story of Haag, Zagami and ALH84001.
>>
>> And Greg C.
>> I know that you sometimes support the notion, that we're
>> all in meteorites
>> only for the money.
>>
>> Though the meteorite prices are not endangered by new
>> scientific recoveries.
>> Much more they are endangered, because still some
>> meteoricists and some
>> clerks haven't recognized yet the direct correlation of
>> find
>> rates/availability of meteorites and the legal situation in
>> the countries,
>> they were and shall be found.
>> You can observe already now the step-back and the regress
>> in newly found
>> material due to always new restrictions. Check the
>> bulletins, what for a
>> decline we have the very last 3 years in newly recovered
>> unpaired
>> planetaries.
>> And regarding especially the Martians, I'm not sure how
>> long you're in
>> meteorites, but they already doubled, tripled, quadrupled
>> in price during
>> the last 4 years, because of that.
>>
>> And sooner or later, the collectors, hunters and dealers
>> won't know anymore,
>> how they still should supply the universities and museums
>> further, with
>> affordable, but rare and scientifically significant new
>> materials.
>> And really the least university institutes are in such a
>> likewise
>> comfortable financial situation like e.g. the Smithsonian
>> or London - but
>> nevertheless are urgently wanting to work on such
>> materials.
>> And we all agree, the more scientists have the opportunity
>> to do their
>> research on a meteorite - the better.
>>
>> So Greg C. - you have to appeal with your worries not to
>> Jim or Greg H.,
>> but to such people like Dr.Bevan, the successor of al
>> Kathiri, Dr.Chennaoui,
>> Dr.Zuccolotto, Dr.Planche, (or in your country, those who
>> initiated these
>> new BLM-land restrictions) and others, who seem to actively
>> support the ban
>> of  private involvement and with that the ban of new
>> meteoritic recoveries..
>>
>> ..and thus tossing not only the national meteorite research
>> of their
>> countries into a crisis, but global meteoritics too. Thus,
>> in the end they
>> are restricting the freedom of research.
>> They urgently need some enlightenment about that, what
>> they're doing and the
>> consequences, which they are not able to see. I really
>> hope, that this topic
>> will be on the agenda at the next MetSoc meeting in Perth.
>>
>> Because today we have already very often the situation,
>> that the important
>> new recoveries of special meteorites are gladly welcome by
>> all meteorite
>> researchers, but on the other hand and in the same breath
>> some scientists,
>> not so seldom even some, who work on these very meteorites
>> or use the
>> results of the work on these meteorites done by colleagues,
>> claim these very
>> finds to be products of criminal activities and call the
>> finders and those
>> persons involved to bring the stones into the labs and
>> institutional
>> collections criminals.
>>
>> If we don't manage to resolve this pervert schizophrenia -
>> and that
>> immediately -
>> then the meteorite research in that extent and quality, we
>> were used to the
>> last two decades - won't have any future.
>>
>> And Greg C., it is easy to forecast, that absolutely
>> independently from
>> whether E.T.'s car key of his spacecraft will be found in a
>> Martian
>> meteorite or not,
>> that in 5 years we'll have 1000% surcharges on the prices
>> we had the last
>> decade,
>> and not only on Martians but on quite all meteorites - and
>> even more
>> precarious, we won't then have anymore that variety of
>> those new meteorites,
>> which are exceptional and important for meteorite science,
>> if we don't stop and partially reverse that trend.
>>
>> Huh Greg C., simple & very little example from
>> yesterday, take that EL4
>> we're blowing out as our X-mas gratification for the
>> collectors,
>> 10 bucks a gram, still very nice chondrules
>> - in the coming years you simply can forget such a price
>> and such a stone at
>> all.
>> Antarctica isn't really an alternative - in 34 years only
>> 200grams found of
>> such.
>> And else 6 finds from the hot deserts, mainly as a result
>> of the enormous
>> work, the private sector had done.
>> Historically seen - you know it, the two DaGs cost minimum
>> 15 times more,
>> or if you go to the ELs in general - it's not so hefty
>> weathered like the
>> classics Happy Canyon, Yilmia or that stone, with which
>> everything began a
>> decade ago, NWA 002 and what for prices you have to pay for
>> them, you know
>> too.
>>
>> (Sooo, and to turn back to the title line, to crimp more
>> advertizing in that
>> posting, cause we're all in only for the mammon and finally
>> to calm your
>> fears Greg C. about the Martian prices to come,
>> we'll distribute after the little EL4 main mass will have
>> gone, the very
>> last two slices of 4925, quite the wildest and most
>> colorful shergottite of
>> all, that with the pseudo-orangettes - but not here on the
>> list - and that
>> at the prices we had years ago).
>>
>> Martian greetings!
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
>> Im Auftrag von
>> JoshuaTreeMuseum
>> Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2010 06:11
>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
>>
>> I'm pretty sure the raison d'etre behind the Mars Missions
>> is to look for
>> life or signs of biological activity. I know they're
>> looking for water, but
>> why? Could it be because 70 to 90% of a living organism is
>> water? Water is
>> the prime ingredient and habitat for life. Something like
>> 80% of all Earth
>> fossils are marine. From the very beginning, they've been
>> looking for signs
>> of life. The search for water is a subset of the main goal
>> of looking for
>> life.  Mariner 4 calculated that liquid water could
>> not exist on Mar's
>> surface. The Viking orbiters were looking for signs of
>> ancient water to
>> determine if life could have existed in the Martian past.
>> Since they figured
>>
>> out that multicellular life was a no go, the Viking probes
>> went to Mars in
>> the 1970s to specifically look for single-celled organisms
>> and organic
>> matter. The Phoenix lander of 2008 had two goals: look for
>> life supporting
>> habitable zones and of course, to look for geologic signs
>> of water. All the
>> future Mars missions on the drawing board have one purpose.
>> To look for
>> signs of life! So far none of the evidence has met the
>> criteria and
>> parameters for exo-biologic origin. Humans are a lonely
>> herd. We just can't
>> believe that we're all alone. It's hard to accept that the
>> closest, most
>> Earth-like planet we can imagine is a cold, desolate,
>> lifeless place.
>>
>> -----------------------------
>> Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people
>> have. (SW)
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>> ----------------------------
>>
>>
>>
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