[meteorite-list] AL HAGGOUNIA 001 ("NOT" AUBRITE)

[Jeff Grossman]

The message Greg just sent shows several misconceptions that I hear a lot.

First, the AGU abstract he cites was not "approved" by anybody except 
the authors and a meeting program committee.  It is not peer 
reviewed, nor is it endorsed by MetSoc.  It is gray literature.

Second, the MetSoc does not endorse classifications that appear in 
the Meteoritical Bulletin.  Basically, the Nomenclature Committee 
will accept the text and classification if is done with apparent 
competence.  So when you see something in the Bulletin, you only know 
that the committee thought the classifier was qualified to do the 
examination and that the classification is reasonably consistent with 
the reported observations. Only when formal publications come out on 
these meteorites will it be possible to see whether a consensus 
arises about the classification.

I have read the preliminary information on these meteorites and 
talked with the authors of the AGU abstract.  From what I've seen, I 
agree that it is probably not an aubrite, but I've seen even less 
convincing evidence that it is a type 3 chondrite either.  I, for 
one, will wait to see what the formal literature brings.

Jeff

At 07:27 PM 11/28/2007, Greg Hupe wrote:
>Dear Frederic, Matteo and List Members,
>
>"Al Haggounia 001"(NWA 4420), NWA 2828 and the other Fossil EL3's 
>are NOT, I repeat, NOT aubrites. I wish they were, I have many, many 
>kilos of NWA 2828. At first when just the type sample was tested, it 
>came back as an aubrite, no chondrules were found. After cutting 
>more of the NWA 2828 material I had, I began to find these funny 
>round things and I thought, "Oh no, these are chondrules, this can 
>not be an aubrite". I then sent more sample material in to have 
>tested and sure enough, they WERE chondrules. Unfortunately I had 
>not cut the material for sale until the classification and abstract 
>were approved. After the chondrules were found and confirmed by 
>several US scientists, a revised classification and abstract were 
>submitted. The abstract was approved, see here: 
>http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K but the NWA 2828 
>classification was not changed by the Meteoritical Society in the 
>bulletin (not sure why this is, any one out there who can address this?).
>
>The classifying scientist who studied NWA 4420 "Al Haggounia", Dr. 
>Jambon, refused scientific data supporting the EL3 classification 
>from the US scientists and classified the sample he had as an 
>aubrite. This material IS THE SAME AS NWA 2828, the now infamous EL3 
>Fossil (Paleo) meteorite! I do not know if "Al Haggnounia" is trying 
>to be wished into being an aubrite, but IT IS NOT!!! Those who have 
>sent Dr. Jambon sample material need to send him and other 
>scientists more samples that show the true makeup of this meteorite. 
>In other words, send samples with those funny round things so the 
>classification can be made correctly. When new data and evidence is 
>presented, it is up to the dealers AND the scientists to do the right thing.
>
>To error is OK as long as a correction is made as in the case of NWA 
>2828, hence the title of the revised abstract, "EL3 Chondrite (not 
>Aubrite) Northwest Africa 2828: An Unusual Paleo-meteorite Occurring 
>as Cobbles in a Terrestrial Conglomerate". See here: 
>http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K
>
>I wish NWA 2828 was an aubrite, but an EL3 Fossil meteorite is 
>pretty cool too. Anyone want an excellent deal on some nice and 
>clean NWA 2828 stones?
>
>Respectfully,
>Greg
>
>====================
>Greg Hupe
>The Hupe Collection
>NaturesVault (eBay)
>gmhupe at htn.net
>www.LunarRock.com
>IMCA 3163
>====================
>Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "meteoriteshow" <meteoriteshow at free.fr>
>To: "Meteorite List Meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:54 AM
>Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - AL HAGGOUNIA 001 (AUBRITE)
>
>
>>Dear Listees,
>>
>>Sorry, the links where cut in my previous post.
>>So please just find them (I hope this time uncut) hereunder:
>>
>>1/ Al Haggounia 001 / Meteoritical Society:
>>http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sfor=names&categ=Aubrites&mblist=92
>>
>>2/ Al Haggounia 001 for sale on Meteoriteshow web site:
>>http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente-fra.htm#NWA4420
>>
>>
>>
>>kind regards,
>>
>>Frederic Beroud
>>IMCA #2491
>>www.meteoriteshow.com
>>
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>
>
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA