[meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

Martin Horejsi accretiondesk at gmail.com
Sat Nov 26 11:25:27 EST 2005 

Hi All,

Regardless of the auction issued discussed here, I think you have to
admit that the flash feature on the auction page provides an
interesting look at the pallasite using internet technology.

Zoomed way in, I have found crystals with holes, cracks filled with
iron, and some great shapes other other oddities I have not spent much
time considering in the past.

I would not mind if someone would spend the time and money to do this
to all my collection pieces so I could skip scope and just powerup the
powerbook.

Happy flashing.

Martin



On 11/26/05, Michael Farmer <meteoritehunter at comcast.net> wrote:
> Oh, you noticed that the Fukang slice was not even polished as well? I find
> it pure ooozing greed that the owner does not even bother to take the extra
> time and expense to completely finish his work and properly polish the
> meteorite.
> Mike Farmer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de>
> To: <MexicoDoug at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite
>
>
> > Hi Doug,
> >
> > I see it more pragmatically.
> > The terms&conditions the seller/buyer knows before.
> > Don't know whether they are so different from other auction houses like
> > Christie's, Sotheby and all the rest of them.
> > Nor do I think, that they are meteorite pimps, maximum meteoritically
> > pimply.
> > (I guess the seller wrote the description, as I wouldn't expect those
> > auctioneers to have a clue about meteorites).
> >
> > Doug, don't forget, that almost nobody on this planet knows what a
> > meteorite
> > is, and almost all, who knows it, make no difference between a Tucson Ring
> > and a Canyon Diablo, even not mineral collectors or stargazers (from this
> > two groups most meteorite collectors were recruited).
> >
> > And there I have to say, the estimated values for the Nantans is o.k, as I
> > suppose this auction house addressea to another audience, than those
> > ebay-junkies, who hang 12 hours per day in front of the screen to wait for
> > a
> > downetched Nantan crystal going for 100/kg.
> > The estimated value of the Fukang is more problematic, as this locality
> > didn't found its price yet, which will depend on how much material will
> > appear on market in future. If the Russians will get it in their fingers,
> > one will be able to buy it on ebay in a few months at a
> > Brahin-Seymchan-price, if few more careful persons will obtain the main
> > masses, we will have to pay a normal pallasite's price.
> >
> >>From my point of view, as I sell meteorites, I welcome such activities,
> > cause it helps to add more popularity to our hobby, creating more
> > collectors
> > (and buyers).
> >>From a collectors point of view it might be different, as we all benefit
> > currently from the backlog of material and the fact that there exist only
> > a
> > few thousands (or less) collectors.
> > (Can be a problem - at times melanchollically I remember the years around
> > 1990, before there were some exhibitions of baroque celestial charts
> > (another hobby of mine) in USA. Suddenly it was tres chic for anyone, who
> > was a little bit wealthy to plaster his loft with celestial charts. As
> > they
> > are very limited the prices skyrocketed in the following years and
> > nowadays
> > one has to pay ten times more than then.)
> >
> > Anyway, I can't understand, that one rather carves a beetle out of a
> > lunaite, then to sell the stone with an adequate hoop-la via such an
> > auction
> > house to a suitable group of buyers.
> >
> > Hey, I think that Fukang slice deserves a better polish to fir better to
> > the
> > description.
> >
> > Buckleboo!
> > Martin
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MexicoDoug at aol.com>
> > To: <Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de>; <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was:
> > Pallasite
> >
> >
> > Nice Find Martin, it was nice to actually see  this new material that is
> > thrilling to some listmemembers:), though there is no  real guaranty of
> > authenticity offered.
> >
> > In case someone out there really  is motivated to participate, I just
> > would
> > like to express my opinion, that these  are more meteorite pimps: Only a
> > bunch
> > of thieves would appear to do this.  I guess they think with a cheap
> > British
> > (or Stagecoach) sounding name like  "Bonham & Butterfield" they add some
> > mysterious value.  There are five  more meteorites sharing the company of
> > the sample
> > of the pallasite from the  Fukang locality, did you notice?  All the
> > others
> > are Nantan  Irons!!
> >
> > Let's look at the economics of a sale of lot 8079, the 2.02 kg  Nantan:
> >
> > If it sells for the low price of the range, $400:
> >
> > $470  collected from buyer included "premium"
> > $70 retained as buyer's premium by  auctioneer
> > $100 commission retained by auctioneer from Seller
> > $150 catalog  picture kept by auctioneer
> > $30  online uploaded image kept by  auctioneer
> > $6 insurance fee collected by auctioneer
> >
> > NET amount  remitted to Seller: $114
> > TOTAL Kept by  Auctioneer:      $356
> >
> > Sounds like purchases on  eBay through PayPal just might offer better
> > protection, as evidenced by the  Auctioneers statement of responsibility
> > and
> > authenticity:
> >
> > Lots are sold  on an *as is* basis but the actual condition of a Lot may
> > not
> > be as good as  indicated by its outward appearance. In particular parts
> > may
> > have been replaced  or renewed and Lots may not be authentic or of
> > satisfactory
> > quality.
> >
> > Oh,  that's nice, and let me guess, even if it is later shown that the
> > meteorite  wasn't authentic, the auctioneer will do it's best to hang on
> > to
> > its $356
> > or a  good part of it as it is so costly to hold an auction when use a
> > fancy
> > auctioneer name.  Uh huh...into the thieves category they go, for
> > irresponsible.  Of course the Seller is responsible in their book not them
> > they'll have
> > nothing to do with responsibility, and for that the seller gets  24.2% of
> > the
> > sale procedes for a meteorite of questionable pedigree.
> >
> > How  shameful such abuse still takes place, but I guess "Ye pays ya money
> > and
> > ye  takes ya chances."  I'd invite anyone to to correct anything I've
> > inadvertantly overlooked.
> >
> > Saludos, Doug
> > PS - and that misleading  comment that Esquel somehow isn't as nice
> > because
> > it has been sawed into  hundreds of pieces.  I am scratching my head on
> > still
> > on that note, as it  appears that the lot offered itself is not exactly
> > the
> > main mass either...at  less than a kilogram, but they had to add: "The
> > specimen's
> > very large size" as a  descriptor
> >
> >
> >
> > En un mensaje con fecha 11/26/2005 6:31:08 AM Mexico  Standard Time,
> > Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de escribe:
> > You can buy your slice at  a Bonham's auction in L.A. on 4th of Dec.
> >
> > "
> > Help
> > Flash version  Copyright (c) 2002-2005 Bonhams 1793 Ltd., Images and Text
> > All
> > Rights  Reserved
> > Lot No: 8084
> >
> > Fukang Meteorite Slice - An Important New  Discovery
> > Stoney Iron - Pallasite
> > Fukang, China
> > An extraordinary  discovery made in 2003, the Fukang Meteorite is arguably
> > the world's  preeminent pallasitic meteorite. The present cut and polished
> > slice is the  first specimen of this distinguished meteorite to be made
> > available to the  public. Displaying much larger olivine crystals than
> > have
> > ever been seen  before, the superlative Fukang meteorite is in outstanding
> > condition; its  nickel-iron matrix exhibits abundant high quality olivine
> > crystals. The  quality of some of the crystals is so fine that they may be
> > classified as  peridot crystals, a gem form of olivine.
> >
> > A brief history of  Pallasites:
> > In 1749 on a remote wooded ridge of Mount Emir, Siberia, the  first
> > pallasite
> > meteorite was discovered. The native Tartars believed the  iron was a holy
> > relic that had fallen from the heavens. In 1772, Peter Simon  Pallas, the
> > German scientist for whom this category of meteorites was named,  visited
> > the
> > site and removed samples of the 700-kilogram mass. Although it  would be
> > several years before scientists would accept the theory that stones  and
> > irons fall from the heavens, the Pallas iron was eventually recognized as
> > a
> > meteorite and identified as such. The large mass is now on display at  the
> > Academy of Sciences Mineral Museum.
> >
> > Over the next 161 years, other  much smaller pallasites were discovered
> > and
> > identified. Then, in 1937 at  Huckitta, Australia, a pallasite weighing
> > 1,411
> > kilograms was found;  unfortunately, nearly the entire specimen had
> > weathered
> > into iron shale,  leaving only 450 kilograms of intact specimen which is
> > currently in Adelaide,  Australia.
> >
> > Fourteen years later, in 1951, a 1,500-kilogram pallasite was  found in
> > Esquel, Argentina. A private individual maintained ownership until  1992
> > when
> > it was sold and was subsequently sawed into hundreds of small  pieces. The
> > largest intact piece of the specimen is now less than 200  kilograms.
> >
> > Not since 1951 has as large and significant a pallasite been  found as the
> > Fukang Meteorite, discovered outside a tiny village in  Northwestern China
> > in
> > 2003. The specimen's very large size, superb quality  and enormous,
> > high-quality crystals make it a find of historic  importance.
> > Measuring 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 1/8in. Weighing 910  grams.
> >
> > Estimate: $18,000 to  22,000
> >
> > http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&sc
> > reen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2651951&iSaleNo=13327&sServer=http://imag
> > es
> > 2.bonhams.com/&sPath=2005-10/10/7153424-48-1.jpg
> >
> > Regards.
> > Martin
> >
> > -----  Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!"  <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
> > To:  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005  12:14 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] FUKANG METEORITE
> >
> >
> >> Hello  again list.I got an email from a list member stating that the main
> >> mass  of the fukang meteorite is at u of arizona.Man that piece looks
> >> like
> >>  over 900 kilo's.Does anyone have a close approximate of the TKW?I can
> >>  hardly wait to get a  piece.
> >>
> >>
> >>                                   steve arnold, chicago
> >>
> >> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL,  60120
> >>
> >>
> >> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
> >>
> >>
> >>  website url  http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Saludos,  Doug
> >
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>
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