[meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

Sat Nov 26 11:05:35 EST 2005

That is one of the best emails I have read in a long time!
Butterfields wanted me to put some Lunar and Martian specimens in their 
auction a couple of years ago, I just laughed when they presented me with 
the details.
Do you also know, that the buyer must arrange shipping, not too handy of an 
option if you say, live in Russia, and need to call LA to find a shipping 
company and make arrangements for them not only to ship, but to package as 
well. It seems like Bonhams is not only greedy, but too lazy to take care of 
the details.
I to get sick of reading these misleading things about other meteorites to 
promote that one. Esquel has not been hacked up. There are complete slices, 
the largest pallasite slices in the world already cut and sold of Esquel. I 
have yet to see one of Fukang, only hacked up partslices.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.
Mike Farmer

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <MexicoDoug at aol.com>
To: <Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de>; <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

Nice Find Martin, it was nice to actually see  this new material that is
thrilling to some listmemembers:), though there is no  real guaranty of
authenticity offered.

In case someone out there really  is motivated to participate, I just would
like to express my opinion, that these  are more meteorite pimps: Only a 
bunch
of thieves would appear to do this.  I guess they think with a cheap British
(or Stagecoach) sounding name like  "Bonham & Butterfield" they add some
mysterious value.  There are five  more meteorites sharing the company of 
the sample
of the pallasite from the  Fukang locality, did you notice?  All the others
are Nantan  Irons!!

Let's look at the economics of a sale of lot 8079, the 2.02 kg  Nantan:

If it sells for the low price of the range, $400:

$470  collected from buyer included "premium"
$70 retained as buyer's premium by  auctioneer
$100 commission retained by auctioneer from Seller
$150 catalog  picture kept by auctioneer
$30  online uploaded image kept by  auctioneer
$6 insurance fee collected by auctioneer

NET amount  remitted to Seller: $114
TOTAL Kept by  Auctioneer:      $356

Sounds like purchases on  eBay through PayPal just might offer better
protection, as evidenced by the  Auctioneers statement of responsibility and
authenticity:

Lots are sold  on an *as is* basis but the actual condition of a Lot may not
be as good as  indicated by its outward appearance. In particular parts may
have been replaced  or renewed and Lots may not be authentic or of 
satisfactory
quality.

Oh,  that's nice, and let me guess, even if it is later shown that the
meteorite  wasn't authentic, the auctioneer will do it's best to hang on to 
its $356
or a  good part of it as it is so costly to hold an auction when use a fancy
auctioneer name.  Uh huh...into the thieves category they go, for
irresponsible.  Of course the Seller is responsible in their book not them 
they'll have
nothing to do with responsibility, and for that the seller gets  24.2% of 
the
sale procedes for a meteorite of questionable pedigree.

How  shameful such abuse still takes place, but I guess "Ye pays ya money 
and
ye  takes ya chances."  I'd invite anyone to to correct anything I've
inadvertantly overlooked.

Saludos, Doug
PS - and that misleading  comment that Esquel somehow isn't as nice because
it has been sawed into  hundreds of pieces.  I am scratching my head on 
still
on that note, as it  appears that the lot offered itself is not exactly the
main mass either...at  less than a kilogram, but they had to add: "The 
specimen's
very large size" as a  descriptor

En un mensaje con fecha 11/26/2005 6:31:08 AM Mexico  Standard Time,
Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de escribe:
You can buy your slice at  a Bonham's auction in L.A. on 4th of Dec.

"
Help
Flash version  Copyright © 2002-2005 Bonhams 1793 Ltd., Images and Text All
Rights  Reserved
Lot No: 8084

Fukang Meteorite Slice - An Important New  Discovery
Stoney Iron - Pallasite
Fukang, China
An extraordinary  discovery made in 2003, the Fukang Meteorite is arguably
the world's  preeminent pallasitic meteorite. The present cut and polished
slice is the  first specimen of this distinguished meteorite to be made
available to the  public. Displaying much larger olivine crystals than have
ever been seen  before, the superlative Fukang meteorite is in outstanding
condition; its  nickel-iron matrix exhibits abundant high quality olivine
crystals. The  quality of some of the crystals is so fine that they may be
classified as  peridot crystals, a gem form of olivine.

A brief history of  Pallasites:
In 1749 on a remote wooded ridge of Mount Emir, Siberia, the  first 
pallasite
meteorite was discovered. The native Tartars believed the  iron was a holy
relic that had fallen from the heavens. In 1772, Peter Simon  Pallas, the
German scientist for whom this category of meteorites was named,  visited 
the
site and removed samples of the 700-kilogram mass. Although it  would be
several years before scientists would accept the theory that stones  and
irons fall from the heavens, the Pallas iron was eventually recognized as  a
meteorite and identified as such. The large mass is now on display at  the
Academy of Sciences Mineral Museum.

Over the next 161 years, other  much smaller pallasites were discovered and
identified. Then, in 1937 at  Huckitta, Australia, a pallasite weighing 
1,411
kilograms was found;  unfortunately, nearly the entire specimen had 
weathered
into iron shale,  leaving only 450 kilograms of intact specimen which is
currently in Adelaide,  Australia.

Fourteen years later, in 1951, a 1,500-kilogram pallasite was  found in
Esquel, Argentina. A private individual maintained ownership until  1992 
when
it was sold and was subsequently sawed into hundreds of small  pieces. The
largest intact piece of the specimen is now less than 200  kilograms.

Not since 1951 has as large and significant a pallasite been  found as the
Fukang Meteorite, discovered outside a tiny village in  Northwestern China 
in
2003. The specimen's very large size, superb quality  and enormous,
high-quality crystals make it a find of historic  importance.
Measuring 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 1/8in. Weighing 910  grams.

Estimate: $18,000 to  22,000

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&sc
reen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2651951&iSaleNo=13327&sServer=http://images
2.bonhams.com/&sPath=2005-10/10/7153424-48-1.jpg

Regards.
Martin

-----  Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!"  <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
To:  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005  12:14 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] FUKANG METEORITE

> Hello  again list.I got an email from a list member stating that the main
> mass  of the fukang meteorite is at u of arizona.Man that piece looks like
>  over 900 kilo's.Does anyone have a close approximate of the TKW?I can
>  hardly wait to get a  piece.
>
>
>                                   steve arnold, chicago
>
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL,  60120
>
>
> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
>
>
>  website url  http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
>
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Saludos,  Doug

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