[meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

Michael Farmer meteoritehunter at comcast.net
Sat Nov 26 11:08:56 EST 2005 

Oh, you noticed that the Fukang slice was not even polished as well? I find 
it pure ooozing greed that the owner does not even bother to take the extra 
time and expense to completely finish his work and properly polish the 
meteorite.
Mike Farmer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de>
To: <MexicoDoug at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite


> Hi Doug,
>
> I see it more pragmatically.
> The terms&conditions the seller/buyer knows before.
> Don't know whether they are so different from other auction houses like
> Christie's, Sotheby and all the rest of them.
> Nor do I think, that they are meteorite pimps, maximum meteoritically
> pimply.
> (I guess the seller wrote the description, as I wouldn't expect those
> auctioneers to have a clue about meteorites).
>
> Doug, don't forget, that almost nobody on this planet knows what a 
> meteorite
> is, and almost all, who knows it, make no difference between a Tucson Ring
> and a Canyon Diablo, even not mineral collectors or stargazers (from this
> two groups most meteorite collectors were recruited).
>
> And there I have to say, the estimated values for the Nantans is o.k, as I
> suppose this auction house addressea to another audience, than those
> ebay-junkies, who hang 12 hours per day in front of the screen to wait for 
> a
> downetched Nantan crystal going for 100/kg.
> The estimated value of the Fukang is more problematic, as this locality
> didn't found its price yet, which will depend on how much material will
> appear on market in future. If the Russians will get it in their fingers,
> one will be able to buy it on ebay in a few months at a
> Brahin-Seymchan-price, if few more careful persons will obtain the main
> masses, we will have to pay a normal pallasite's price.
>
>>From my point of view, as I sell meteorites, I welcome such activities,
> cause it helps to add more popularity to our hobby, creating more 
> collectors
> (and buyers).
>>From a collectors point of view it might be different, as we all benefit
> currently from the backlog of material and the fact that there exist only 
> a
> few thousands (or less) collectors.
> (Can be a problem - at times melanchollically I remember the years around
> 1990, before there were some exhibitions of baroque celestial charts
> (another hobby of mine) in USA. Suddenly it was tres chic for anyone, who
> was a little bit wealthy to plaster his loft with celestial charts. As 
> they
> are very limited the prices skyrocketed in the following years and 
> nowadays
> one has to pay ten times more than then.)
>
> Anyway, I can't understand, that one rather carves a beetle out of a
> lunaite, then to sell the stone with an adequate hoop-la via such an 
> auction
> house to a suitable group of buyers.
>
> Hey, I think that Fukang slice deserves a better polish to fir better to 
> the
> description.
>
> Buckleboo!
> Martin
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <MexicoDoug at aol.com>
> To: <Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de>; <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: 
> Pallasite
>
>
> Nice Find Martin, it was nice to actually see  this new material that is
> thrilling to some listmemembers:), though there is no  real guaranty of
> authenticity offered.
>
> In case someone out there really  is motivated to participate, I just 
> would
> like to express my opinion, that these  are more meteorite pimps: Only a
> bunch
> of thieves would appear to do this.  I guess they think with a cheap 
> British
> (or Stagecoach) sounding name like  "Bonham & Butterfield" they add some
> mysterious value.  There are five  more meteorites sharing the company of
> the sample
> of the pallasite from the  Fukang locality, did you notice?  All the 
> others
> are Nantan  Irons!!
>
> Let's look at the economics of a sale of lot 8079, the 2.02 kg  Nantan:
>
> If it sells for the low price of the range, $400:
>
> $470  collected from buyer included "premium"
> $70 retained as buyer's premium by  auctioneer
> $100 commission retained by auctioneer from Seller
> $150 catalog  picture kept by auctioneer
> $30  online uploaded image kept by  auctioneer
> $6 insurance fee collected by auctioneer
>
> NET amount  remitted to Seller: $114
> TOTAL Kept by  Auctioneer:      $356
>
> Sounds like purchases on  eBay through PayPal just might offer better
> protection, as evidenced by the  Auctioneers statement of responsibility 
> and
> authenticity:
>
> Lots are sold  on an *as is* basis but the actual condition of a Lot may 
> not
> be as good as  indicated by its outward appearance. In particular parts 
> may
> have been replaced  or renewed and Lots may not be authentic or of
> satisfactory
> quality.
>
> Oh,  that's nice, and let me guess, even if it is later shown that the
> meteorite  wasn't authentic, the auctioneer will do it's best to hang on 
> to
> its $356
> or a  good part of it as it is so costly to hold an auction when use a 
> fancy
> auctioneer name.  Uh huh...into the thieves category they go, for
> irresponsible.  Of course the Seller is responsible in their book not them
> they'll have
> nothing to do with responsibility, and for that the seller gets  24.2% of
> the
> sale procedes for a meteorite of questionable pedigree.
>
> How  shameful such abuse still takes place, but I guess "Ye pays ya money
> and
> ye  takes ya chances."  I'd invite anyone to to correct anything I've
> inadvertantly overlooked.
>
> Saludos, Doug
> PS - and that misleading  comment that Esquel somehow isn't as nice 
> because
> it has been sawed into  hundreds of pieces.  I am scratching my head on
> still
> on that note, as it  appears that the lot offered itself is not exactly 
> the
> main mass either...at  less than a kilogram, but they had to add: "The
> specimen's
> very large size" as a  descriptor
>
>
>
> En un mensaje con fecha 11/26/2005 6:31:08 AM Mexico  Standard Time,
> Altmann at Meteorite-Martin.de escribe:
> You can buy your slice at  a Bonham's auction in L.A. on 4th of Dec.
>
> "
> Help
> Flash version  Copyright © 2002-2005 Bonhams 1793 Ltd., Images and Text 
> All
> Rights  Reserved
> Lot No: 8084
>
> Fukang Meteorite Slice - An Important New  Discovery
> Stoney Iron - Pallasite
> Fukang, China
> An extraordinary  discovery made in 2003, the Fukang Meteorite is arguably
> the world's  preeminent pallasitic meteorite. The present cut and polished
> slice is the  first specimen of this distinguished meteorite to be made
> available to the  public. Displaying much larger olivine crystals than 
> have
> ever been seen  before, the superlative Fukang meteorite is in outstanding
> condition; its  nickel-iron matrix exhibits abundant high quality olivine
> crystals. The  quality of some of the crystals is so fine that they may be
> classified as  peridot crystals, a gem form of olivine.
>
> A brief history of  Pallasites:
> In 1749 on a remote wooded ridge of Mount Emir, Siberia, the  first
> pallasite
> meteorite was discovered. The native Tartars believed the  iron was a holy
> relic that had fallen from the heavens. In 1772, Peter Simon  Pallas, the
> German scientist for whom this category of meteorites was named,  visited
> the
> site and removed samples of the 700-kilogram mass. Although it  would be
> several years before scientists would accept the theory that stones  and
> irons fall from the heavens, the Pallas iron was eventually recognized as 
> a
> meteorite and identified as such. The large mass is now on display at  the
> Academy of Sciences Mineral Museum.
>
> Over the next 161 years, other  much smaller pallasites were discovered 
> and
> identified. Then, in 1937 at  Huckitta, Australia, a pallasite weighing
> 1,411
> kilograms was found;  unfortunately, nearly the entire specimen had
> weathered
> into iron shale,  leaving only 450 kilograms of intact specimen which is
> currently in Adelaide,  Australia.
>
> Fourteen years later, in 1951, a 1,500-kilogram pallasite was  found in
> Esquel, Argentina. A private individual maintained ownership until  1992
> when
> it was sold and was subsequently sawed into hundreds of small  pieces. The
> largest intact piece of the specimen is now less than 200  kilograms.
>
> Not since 1951 has as large and significant a pallasite been  found as the
> Fukang Meteorite, discovered outside a tiny village in  Northwestern China
> in
> 2003. The specimen's very large size, superb quality  and enormous,
> high-quality crystals make it a find of historic  importance.
> Measuring 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 1/8in. Weighing 910  grams.
>
> Estimate: $18,000 to  22,000
>
> http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&sc
> reen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2651951&iSaleNo=13327&sServer=http://imag
> es
> 2.bonhams.com/&sPath=2005-10/10/7153424-48-1.jpg
>
> Regards.
> Martin
>
> -----  Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!"  <steve_arnol60120 at yahoo.com>
> To:  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005  12:14 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] FUKANG METEORITE
>
>
>> Hello  again list.I got an email from a list member stating that the main
>> mass  of the fukang meteorite is at u of arizona.Man that piece looks 
>> like
>>  over 900 kilo's.Does anyone have a close approximate of the TKW?I can
>>  hardly wait to get a  piece.
>>
>>
>>                                   steve arnold, chicago
>>
>> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL,  60120
>>
>>
>> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
>>
>>
>>  website url  http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Saludos,  Doug
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>

More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list