[meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Michael Blood
mlblood at cox.net
Tue Mar 8 04:23:38 EST 2011
Right on. Michael
On 3/8/11 12:42 AM, "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>
>
> I have been reading this Post and another Post about about weight and
> attractiveness and I can say there is a lot of pros and cons that have been
> listed. But I think the bottom line is the way you collect meteorites is in
> your own right and no one else. This is what I like about meteorite
> collecting, is that your collection can be unique from someone else, even if
> you both have the same meteorites. Can you do that with collecting coins or
> baseball cards?
>
> I see that any way from collecting meteorites is your right way. If you
> collect meteorites on the micro scale, or whole specimen scale, or thin
> sections, or gram size, or historic falls to beauty, its all in the eyes of
> the behold, YOU. I can say that collecting a whole meteorite is the best way
> because its in its true natural state and looks like how it fell the day it
> landed on Earth. But on the flip side, I can say well whats the fun in
> collecting whole meteorites, you dont get to see whats in side and the outside
> looks the same.
>
> Thats the beauty with collecting meteorites, everyone of use.... LISTERS will
> have a meteorite collection that is unique from anyone else and that just the
> collecting side. What about presentation and how you show off your meteorites.
> Good example is a pallisite suspended in oil and put in a frame. To beat that,
> one could put an LED light panel behind the pallisite and back light it. The
> list goes on.
>
> But I do feel that there are some factors to think about when collecting and
> thats weight, which has been in question with an ebayer, the cost, where did
> it come from, is it a historic meteorite, does it have paper work, and is it
> beautiful in no particular order. But again, you might buy only historic falls
> with the actual museum labels, or meteorites that are whole specimens, or you
> might only collect slices to micros.
>
> Now I do have to say, factoring these elements in, that money has a big
> deal on how I collect and I bet on how others collect. If I had a lot of money
> to spend on meteorites, I might buy bigger or more, or might buy as much as I
> can and try to get every single meteorite out there. Or if I had a big budget
> and only wanted to get micros because I have this million dollar display case
> house out of crystals to show case my micros off, so be it.
>
> The bottom line is no way is the right way to collect only your way is the
> right way and dont let anyone else say other wise. But keep in mind, the
> weight, cost, where it comes from, and if you really want to add that
> meteorite to your collection.
>
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay biddingJason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com
> Tue Mar 8 00:24:05 EST 2011
>
>
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>
> Hello All,
> I'd like to point out a few things.
>
> First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors.
> What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we
> have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our
> hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little
> different than the more easily available ones that have originated on
> earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or
> 'pretty,' and that's about it.
>
> So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest
> slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back
> and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer
> types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per
> gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if
> seeing the specimen were an issue.
>
> But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to
> disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay
> twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much
> as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area.
>
> Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just
> want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a
> credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it.
> Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about
> a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I
> personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have
> purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them
> to slices of equivalent weights.
>
> And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the
> "better" ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push
> your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer
> thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is
> "better." Your desire is rational in one sense - if you're willing to
> spend only enough to buy a gram or so of the moon, then yes, I can see
> why you would prefer a wafer with a larger surface area. And I prefer
> specimens that have some weight and heft -- meteorites that I can see
> *and* feel.
>
> And there's much more to my rationale than just that. Stability,
> difficulty of preservation, and the fact that the prices for such
> specimens *are* significantly inflated in general all make these less
> desirable to me. That and the fact that I wouldn't feel comfortable
> with ever taking them out of a membrane box because I'd fear for the
> samples' safety.
>
> But, yes. I see where you're coming from. If visibility is your only
> criteria, then a thinner slice would logically appeal more to you. I
> personally don't find that attractive.
>
> So, when I emailed the ebay seller that led to this thread and asked
> for specimen weights several months ago -- and they crassly declined
> -- I opted not to purchase any of their specimens. Can I understand
> their supposed rationale for preferring thin slices with large surface
> areas? Sure. But they, as the seller, are obliged to give potential
> buyers the information they want about the material they're selling.
>
> Let's compare it to buying a house. You are looking at properties and
> are told by a seller that you can see some photos of their building,
> but they won't let you actually go inside it or know how many bedrooms
> or bathrooms it has before you buy it. The price seems fair based on
> what you know of the market, and can see from the photos. The seller
> assures you that nothing is wrong with the house.
> Wouldn't you think it strange? The details they are withholding are a
> good guideline for how houses are generally priced. Wouldn't you
> think that the house *might* be flawed in some way that the seller
> didn't want you to know? Furthermore, would you be willing to risk
> spending your money on such a deal?
>
> Meteorites are currently (generally) sold by the gram. That system
> makes sense because weight is an easily quantifiable unit. If people
> start selling slices by the square centimeter, unless they have some
> nifty computer programs and a scanner handy, they're not going to be
> able to judge area as accurately -- and furthermore, people wouldn't
> know how 'big' the pieces they were buying actually were. Weight
> tells you how much you're getting, regardless of shape. Area doesn't.
> Photographs can help to take care of that problem, but when slices
> are mm-thin...Richard Montgomery noted that, for the specimens he
> purchased, "their weights...were far more expensive than usual."
>
> So I was probably right in assuming that the information that the
> seller wanted to hide -- the specimens' weights -- would likely have
> deterred me from buying them. If you read the description, you'll
> note that the seller isn't selling collection pieces that they've
> purchased as-is and are now selling. He/she is doing the cutting
> personally. Do you honestly think that they personally prefer thin
> slices? Well, since they're removing these thin slices from
> collection pieces, I assume that they actually own endcuts with quite
> a bit of heft, and are thinning them to make some money. *Maybe*
> they're just saying that ridiculous stuff about not telling people
> specimen weights so that they can sell their paper-thin slices at
> inflated prices. Makes sense.
>
> I agree that thin slices should sell for a slight premium because a
> thinner slice means that the buyer is getting more area for their
> money given the weight of the slice (*relevant only if buyers actually
> prefer thinner slices). But that price hike has to make sense with
> regard to existing average prices per gram for larger specimens,
> because at some point the thin slice will cost as much as a thick
> slice of the same area, and at that point there's simply no reason to
> purchase the thinner slice.
>
> Even if you prefer a thin slice, you've still got to admit the fact
> that meteorites are currently sold by weight. Changing the current
> selling paradigm isn't going to happen for practical reasons. I agree
> that aesthetics should have a large bearing on price, but....they
> already do. Pretty pieces sell for more, and thinner slices are often
> priced higher per unit weight than are thicker slices, due to demand a
> higher demand for 'cheaper surface area.'
>
> This seller's not saying anything new. They're just getting people to
> pay more by withholding information. It's apparently a good gimmick
> (and legal, to boot). And if you want to pay more per gram for a
> wafer-thin slice of a given meteorite than you would normally consider
> paying, then it's a good deal for you.
>
> I'll refrain. I prefer meteorites with mass, and not just area. 3D
> is where it's at. For me, though: maybe not you.
>
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Richard Montgomery
> <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi List...
>
>>
>
>> The ones I bought from 'this entity' who stated this answer via an ebay
>
>> question, "I won't list the weights so please don't ask"....however did
>
>> provide a cm/mm grid (in blue...ahem, so now we know)...
>
>>
>
>> [So going in I did have and idea of what I was bidding on. Other clues
>
>> prevailed as well: knowing NWA801 well, already owning a few small
>
>> specimens from semi-cubes, slices and a really nice end-piece with
>
>> protruding chondrules...I was already familiar with associated size, based
>
>> on the chondrule size. So, it wasn't a blank purchase.]
>
>>
>
>> With that as a preamble, I'd probably dig a bit deeper next time.
>
>>
>
>> Curiously as well, I never received answers to common-hello-emails after the
>
>> purchase, no ID cards (although labeled on the box) nor feedback on the
>
>> ebay-machine, by far the most worrisome part of the whole thing, even after
>
>> a number of attempts. (One of the most rewarding things is the
>
>> correspondence subsequent...alas) But, as always, I lend the bennefit of
>
>> doubt to others. And, I'll re-state it again, as re-redundant as it is, I
>
>> am still pleased with the specimens!
>
>>
>
>> At least they didn't have martian fossil blood-cells tainting the membrane
>
>> box :)
>
>>
>
>> -Richard Montgomery
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
>
>> To: "Met. Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "Richard Montgomery"
>
>> <rickmont at earthlink.net>
>
>> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
>
>> <valparint at aol.com>
>
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:24 PM
>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>> Michael,
>
>>> I completely disagree. When I buy or collect micromount
>
>>> Lunars, that NWA Chassignite, very rare hammers - I care
>
>>> MUCH MUCH more about visual apperance than how much
>
>>> Mass the damned thing has!
>
>>> I have seen pieces twice as "big" than another that weighs
>
>>> Twice as much.
>
>>> To me it's a no brainer.
>
>>> Same with wire thin sliced specimens that have 4 times
>
>>> The surface area of a thickly sliced specimen that weights
>
>>> 8 times as much.
>
>>> Buying by weight is just ONE way of looking at "value"
>
>>> A specimen has.
>
>>> Michael
>
>>>
>
>>>> Of course, certain very rare types and
>
>>>> historicals should be weighed, unless the speck is so small that
>
>>>> static electricity can move it. ;)
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Best regards,
>
>>>>
>
>>>> MikeG
>
>>>>
>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>
>>>>
>
>>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>
>>>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>
>>>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>
>>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>
>>>> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> On 3/7/11, Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> Hi List:
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> I ended up buying a few specimens from (I think) the entity you first
>
>>>>> mentioned, (not mineralwold1)...NWA801, Kenna and Kainsaz...they were
>
>>>>> all
>
>>>>> super super thin (in a good way...even translucent) with great surface
>
>>>>> area;
>
>>>>> their weights though were far more expensive than usual. Aesthetics,
>
>>>>> for
>
>>>>> sure; certainly not good for re-sale, but that wasn't the point. I
>
>>>>> mention
>
>>>>> this to beware: if the weights had been listed I may have thought
>
>>>>> twice.
>
>>>>> But, I'm still pleased.
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> -Richard Montgomery
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>>>>> From: <valparint at aol.com>
>
>>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 6:56 AM
>
>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Hello Listoids.
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Recently a seller on Ebay ran meteorite auctions and refused to supply
>
>>>>>> weights because he was selling aesthetics. He suggests you pop on down
>
>>>>>> to
>
>>>>>> the local market and buy some cheese if you want to purchase something
>
>>>>>> by
>
>>>>>> weight.
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Yesterday I found "mineralwold1". There are no weights included in his
>
>>>>>> listings but he will supply some info if you inquire. Here's his
>
>>>>>> response
>
>>>>>> to an inquiry I made yesterday about items 270688649572 and
>
>>>>>> 280612372239:
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>
>>>>>>> weight 20-25g
>
>>>>>>> and another piece 15-20g
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> Thanks Alex
>
>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>> -mineralwold1
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Does anyone know how I can enter a bid of 35-42 dollars?
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>> Paul Swartz
>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>
>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>
>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>>
>
>>>> --
>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> --
>
>>> "Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig"
>
>>> Mark Twain
>
>>> --
>
>>> 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it,
>
>>> 2. Whenever you're right, shut up.
>
>>> Shaquille O'Neal
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>> ______________________________________________
>
>> Visit the Archives at
>
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>
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>
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
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>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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--
"Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig"
Mark Twain
--
1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it,
2. Whenever you're right, shut up.
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