[meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Shawn Alan
photophlow at yahoo.com
Tue Mar 8 03:42:49 EST 2011
Hello Listers,
I have been reading this Post and another Post about about weight and attractiveness and I can say there is a lot of pros and cons that have been listed. But I think the bottom line is the way you collect meteorites is in your own right and no one else. This is what I like about meteorite collecting, is that your collection can be unique from someone else, even if you both have the same meteorites. Can you do that with collecting coins or baseball cards?
I see that any way from collecting meteorites is your right way. If you collect meteorites on the micro scale, or whole specimen scale, or thin sections, or gram size, or historic falls to beauty, its all in the eyes of the behold, YOU. I can say that collecting a whole meteorite is the best way because its in its true natural state and looks like how it fell the day it landed on Earth. But on the flip side, I can say well whats the fun in collecting whole meteorites, you dont get to see whats in side and the outside looks the same.
Thats the beauty with collecting meteorites, everyone of use.... LISTERS will have a meteorite collection that is unique from anyone else and that just the collecting side. What about presentation and how you show off your meteorites. Good example is a pallisite suspended in oil and put in a frame. To beat that, one could put an LED light panel behind the pallisite and back light it. The list goes on.
But I do feel that there are some factors to think about when collecting and thats weight, which has been in question with an ebayer, the cost, where did it come from, is it a historic meteorite, does it have paper work, and is it beautiful in no particular order. But again, you might buy only historic falls with the actual museum labels, or meteorites that are whole specimens, or you might only collect slices to micros.
Now I do have to say, factoring these elements in, that money has a big deal on how I collect and I bet on how others collect. If I had a lot of money to spend on meteorites, I might buy bigger or more, or might buy as much as I can and try to get every single meteorite out there. Or if I had a big budget and only wanted to get micros because I have this million dollar display case house out of crystals to show case my micros off, so be it.
The bottom line is no way is the right way to collect only your way is the right way and dont let anyone else say other wise. But keep in mind, the weight, cost, where it comes from, and if you really want to add that meteorite to your collection.
Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633
eBaystore
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
[meteorite-list] Help with Ebay biddingJason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com
Tue Mar 8 00:24:05 EST 2011
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Hello All,
I'd like to point out a few things.
First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors.
What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we
have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our
hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little
different than the more easily available ones that have originated on
earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or
'pretty,' and that's about it.
So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest
slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back
and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer
types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per
gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if
seeing the specimen were an issue.
But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to
disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay
twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much
as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area.
Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just
want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a
credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it.
Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about
a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I
personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have
purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them
to slices of equivalent weights.
And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the
"better" ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push
your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer
thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is
"better." Your desire is rational in one sense - if you're willing to
spend only enough to buy a gram or so of the moon, then yes, I can see
why you would prefer a wafer with a larger surface area. And I prefer
specimens that have some weight and heft -- meteorites that I can see
*and* feel.
And there's much more to my rationale than just that. Stability,
difficulty of preservation, and the fact that the prices for such
specimens *are* significantly inflated in general all make these less
desirable to me. That and the fact that I wouldn't feel comfortable
with ever taking them out of a membrane box because I'd fear for the
samples' safety.
But, yes. I see where you're coming from. If visibility is your only
criteria, then a thinner slice would logically appeal more to you. I
personally don't find that attractive.
So, when I emailed the ebay seller that led to this thread and asked
for specimen weights several months ago -- and they crassly declined
-- I opted not to purchase any of their specimens. Can I understand
their supposed rationale for preferring thin slices with large surface
areas? Sure. But they, as the seller, are obliged to give potential
buyers the information they want about the material they're selling.
Let's compare it to buying a house. You are looking at properties and
are told by a seller that you can see some photos of their building,
but they won't let you actually go inside it or know how many bedrooms
or bathrooms it has before you buy it. The price seems fair based on
what you know of the market, and can see from the photos. The seller
assures you that nothing is wrong with the house.
Wouldn't you think it strange? The details they are withholding are a
good guideline for how houses are generally priced. Wouldn't you
think that the house *might* be flawed in some way that the seller
didn't want you to know? Furthermore, would you be willing to risk
spending your money on such a deal?
Meteorites are currently (generally) sold by the gram. That system
makes sense because weight is an easily quantifiable unit. If people
start selling slices by the square centimeter, unless they have some
nifty computer programs and a scanner handy, they're not going to be
able to judge area as accurately -- and furthermore, people wouldn't
know how 'big' the pieces they were buying actually were. Weight
tells you how much you're getting, regardless of shape. Area doesn't.
Photographs can help to take care of that problem, but when slices
are mm-thin...Richard Montgomery noted that, for the specimens he
purchased, "their weights...were far more expensive than usual."
So I was probably right in assuming that the information that the
seller wanted to hide -- the specimens' weights -- would likely have
deterred me from buying them. If you read the description, you'll
note that the seller isn't selling collection pieces that they've
purchased as-is and are now selling. He/she is doing the cutting
personally. Do you honestly think that they personally prefer thin
slices? Well, since they're removing these thin slices from
collection pieces, I assume that they actually own endcuts with quite
a bit of heft, and are thinning them to make some money. *Maybe*
they're just saying that ridiculous stuff about not telling people
specimen weights so that they can sell their paper-thin slices at
inflated prices. Makes sense.
I agree that thin slices should sell for a slight premium because a
thinner slice means that the buyer is getting more area for their
money given the weight of the slice (*relevant only if buyers actually
prefer thinner slices). But that price hike has to make sense with
regard to existing average prices per gram for larger specimens,
because at some point the thin slice will cost as much as a thick
slice of the same area, and at that point there's simply no reason to
purchase the thinner slice.
Even if you prefer a thin slice, you've still got to admit the fact
that meteorites are currently sold by weight. Changing the current
selling paradigm isn't going to happen for practical reasons. I agree
that aesthetics should have a large bearing on price, but....they
already do. Pretty pieces sell for more, and thinner slices are often
priced higher per unit weight than are thicker slices, due to demand a
higher demand for 'cheaper surface area.'
This seller's not saying anything new. They're just getting people to
pay more by withholding information. It's apparently a good gimmick
(and legal, to boot). And if you want to pay more per gram for a
wafer-thin slice of a given meteorite than you would normally consider
paying, then it's a good deal for you.
I'll refrain. I prefer meteorites with mass, and not just area. 3D
is where it's at. For me, though: maybe not you.
Regards,
Jason
On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Richard Montgomery
<rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi List...
>
> The ones I bought from 'this entity' who stated this answer via an ebay
> question, "I won't list the weights so please don't ask"....however did
> provide a cm/mm grid (in blue...ahem, so now we know)...
>
> [So going in I did have and idea of what I was bidding on. Other clues
> prevailed as well: knowing NWA801 well, already owning a few small
> specimens from semi-cubes, slices and a really nice end-piece with
> protruding chondrules...I was already familiar with associated size, based
> on the chondrule size. So, it wasn't a blank purchase.]
>
> With that as a preamble, I'd probably dig a bit deeper next time.
>
> Curiously as well, I never received answers to common-hello-emails after the
> purchase, no ID cards (although labeled on the box) nor feedback on the
> ebay-machine, by far the most worrisome part of the whole thing, even after
> a number of attempts. (One of the most rewarding things is the
> correspondence subsequent...alas) But, as always, I lend the bennefit of
> doubt to others. And, I'll re-state it again, as re-redundant as it is, I
> am still pleased with the specimens!
>
> At least they didn't have martian fossil blood-cells tainting the membrane
> box :)
>
> -Richard Montgomery
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "Met. Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>; "Richard Montgomery"
> <rickmont at earthlink.net>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
> <valparint at aol.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 2:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
>
>
>> Michael,
>> I completely disagree. When I buy or collect micromount
>> Lunars, that NWA Chassignite, very rare hammers - I care
>> MUCH MUCH more about visual apperance than how much
>> Mass the damned thing has!
>> I have seen pieces twice as "big" than another that weighs
>> Twice as much.
>> To me it's a no brainer.
>> Same with wire thin sliced specimens that have 4 times
>> The surface area of a thickly sliced specimen that weights
>> 8 times as much.
>> Buying by weight is just ONE way of looking at "value"
>> A specimen has.
>> Michael
>>
>>> Of course, certain very rare types and
>>> historicals should be weighed, unless the speck is so small that
>>> static electricity can move it. ;)
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>>>
>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>>> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/7/11, Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi List:
>>>>
>>>> I ended up buying a few specimens from (I think) the entity you first
>>>> mentioned, (not mineralwold1)...NWA801, Kenna and Kainsaz...they were
>>>> all
>>>> super super thin (in a good way...even translucent) with great surface
>>>> area;
>>>> their weights though were far more expensive than usual. Aesthetics,
>>>> for
>>>> sure; certainly not good for re-sale, but that wasn't the point. I
>>>> mention
>>>> this to beware: if the weights had been listed I may have thought
>>>> twice.
>>>> But, I'm still pleased.
>>>>
>>>> -Richard Montgomery
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: <valparint at aol.com>
>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 6:56 AM
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Listoids.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently a seller on Ebay ran meteorite auctions and refused to supply
>>>>> weights because he was selling aesthetics. He suggests you pop on down
>>>>> to
>>>>> the local market and buy some cheese if you want to purchase something
>>>>> by
>>>>> weight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday I found "mineralwold1". There are no weights included in his
>>>>> listings but he will supply some info if you inquire. Here's his
>>>>> response
>>>>> to an inquiry I made yesterday about items 270688649572 and
>>>>> 280612372239:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> weight 20-25g
>>>>>> and another piece 15-20g
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Alex
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -mineralwold1
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know how I can enter a bid of 35-42 dollars?
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Swartz
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig"
>> Mark Twain
>> --
>> 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it,
>> 2. Whenever you're right, shut up.
>> Shaquille O'Neal
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
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