[meteorite-list] Progress or ruination?

[Michael Gilmer]

Hi Steve,

You do make some good points that are well worth considering.  I am
not an enemy of progress, but I do hate to see this progress come
at the cost of the surrounding natural environment or the dignity of
local cultures.  It's a fine line to walk.  I do think that all peoples
should be able to read, write, voice their opinions, and be free to
pursue whatever makes them happy if it hurts nobody else - even
if that happiness is a gold mansion with a platinum toliet seat, or
if it's a hand-hewn log cabin in the Ozarks.

Steve, I really envy this part of your reply :

"NOTICE:  All these comments come from a guy who lives in  the sticks of
Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or even a  single stop
light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in 1866 and  who just
got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids."

I used to live in a dry county in rural northern Mississippi (New
Albany), and I loved the lack of hustle and bustle.  I am one of
those people you mention who wants to get back to a simpler lifestyle.
And my fantasies of a National-Geographic-like trip to the Atacama
has just been squashed by visions of Land Rovers full of well-heeled
tourists and highways strewn with trash.  I guess we still have
the Gobi in rural Mongolia.  I have a penpal over there whose mother
is a shaman and lives in a yurt.  He says the skies are fantastically
dark and there is no development outside of the major cities.  Now
that sounds like paradise to me.

BTW, shouldn't the Gobi be a good source of meteorites?  I asked
him about this, but I don't recall what he said.  I'll have to go
dig for his reply in my inbox mountain.  

I apologize as well for getting this off-topic.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
..........................................................



--- On Fri, 1/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:

> From: MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination?
> To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 12:38 PM
> Hey MikeG,
> 
> First off, the Atacama is a  very large place.  Lot's
> of meteorites still to 
> be found in desolate  areas.  I don't think there will
> be any concern about 
> filling up a fraction  of 1% of it, much less all of it. 
> There would be room 
> for several billion  inmates if anyone decided to build a
> prison there.
> 
> WARNING, I am swerving  off the Meteorite Topic in the rest
> of my email!
> 
> Second, I do want to  take issue with you on your comment:
> 
> "But, we also have to recognize that  opinions such as
> these reflect our
> cultural values.  We are trying,  again, to force our views
> of life
> and standards of living on other  cultures.  The wealthy
> powers have
> always done this - we are saving the  savages from
> damnation and
> bringing them the dignity of literacy and running  water. 
> Sound
> familiar?"
> 
> I really don't think this is a matter of  western
> culture's Hollywood forcing 
> their morals on the rest of the world people  who are
> living a more 
> traditional life.  I think this is a matter of  letting
> people make the choice for 
> themselves.  There is a reason why  Coca-Cola is
> everywhere, there is something 
> about it that makes people like to  buy it once the pop
> machine is plugged in.
> 
> Actually, I would think  historically there is more
> precedent for the wealthy 
> powers to want to keep the  masses poor, dependent and
> ignorant, rather than 
> prosperous, independent and  educated.  
> 
> It seems around the world, it is the local leaders  (often
> religious) that 
> want to stop our western culture from spreading into  their
> strongholds, and all 
> the while it is their people, that they control, that  want
> the freedom.
> 
> Yes, rich people or governments (not that the Chilean 
> Government should be 
> considered "wealthy") will be putting up the
> hotels and  will cultivate the 
> tourism.  Yes, it might encroach on some people that  want
> the old simple life in 
> the San Pedro hut.   But, if the business  efforts are
> successful, then the 
> poor people can sell their hut for $1,000,000  move a
> hundred kilometers down 
> the dirt road, build or buy another $1,000 house,  and put
> the rest of the 
> money under their mattress, or burn it for a cooking  fire.
> 
> Ask 500 poor people in the village if they each want
> $1,000,000 and  the 
> choices of life that money would bring, or to be stuck in
> their  poverty?  My 
> guess is that 498 will say they want the money and the
> choices  it brings.
> 
> Such is progress.   I think letting people have  their own
> choice is 
> important.  More often than not, people that are held 
> back, without the choices, are 
> ones that would rather break out of the  restraints of
> their parents culture.  
> After all, it wasn't a child's fault  they were
> born when and where they were.
> 
> The irony is that many in our  modern western culture are
> tired of it, and 
> are looking for something new, or in  some cases, something
> old.  Cool.  That is 
> what choice and freedom are  all about.  And a little
> prosperity helps one 
> have more  choices.
> 
> NOTICE:  All these comments come from a guy who lives in 
> the sticks of 
> Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or
> even a  single stop 
> light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in
> 1866 and  who just 
> got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids.
> 
> I  know, such an email as this can incite riots.  
> 
> And I would probably  agree with 99% of what people say
> about how evil our 
> culture is, and how it  would be best if the rest of the
> world was NOT like us.  
> 
> Anyway, I  just know how excited I was to get away from the
> culture of my 
> small Kansas town  I grew up in, to get to the big city
> culture when I got out of 
> high  school.  
> 
> The grass is always greener, isn't it?
> 
> Choices are  wonderful.
> 
> God Bless America!
> 
> Steve Arnold  #1
> Arkansas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:36:02 A.M.  Central Standard
> Time, 
> michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com writes:
> Hi Steve and  Mike,
> 
> I would be one hell of a pretentious upstart to disagree
> with  someone
> who has actually been there.  My travels in the Atacama are
>  limited
> to armchair fantasies and future pipe dreams. I do hope to 
> visit
> there one day in the future, but I'd like it to look
> like  ATACAMA
> when I get there, and not Orlando Florida.
> 
> Steve, I can't  argue with the logic and rationale of
> what you say here  :
> 
> -----------------
> 
> "But, also as  unforgettable, was all the  trash
> strewn about the highway for
> thousands of miles  up and down the  Pan American highway. 
> Somebody forgot to
> put up the "Keep  Chile  Clean" signs.  Litter
> was so abundant, especially at
> railroad   crossings.  Burned out cars and buses were
> sitting on the side of  
> the
> road  from car wrecks years if not decades before.  What
> 99% of  people saw
> when  traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash,
> not  the beauty.  
> You 
> had to get off the highway before things would clean  up.
> 
> So to me, my  hunch is that if there are high class hotels 
> coming in to the
> San Pedro de  Atacama, my bet is that they will at  least
> clean the trash up 
> on
> and around  their own property.  They  might even pay to
> have the other trash
> in public  areas cleaned up as  well.  So in a way, the
> development might be a
> good  thing.  
> 
> And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in 
> poverty,  is sad. 
> I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized 
> world  would like to
> have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good  
> health care, maybe 
> be
> able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE  as
>  to what they want
> to do with their life. 
> For those of us with  enough  money to travel there, it is
> fun, but we get to
> leave and choose  where we go  next.  To be stuck there for
> one's whole life,
> it  might get to be a drag  after a while. If they can make
> a buck and  
> improve
> their life, who are we to say  that is  bad?"
> 
> -----------------------------------------------
> 
> But, we also  have to recognize that opinions such as these
> reflect our
> cultural  values.  We are trying, again, to force our views
> of life
> and standards  of living on other cultures.  The wealthy
> powers have
> always done this -  we are saving the savages from
> damnation and
> bringing them the dignity of  literacy and running water. 
> Sound
> familiar?  It's the first step  on the well-worn path
> to cultural
> genocide.  Of course Coca Cola is  better than their local
> concoction
> made of who knows what.  And of  course Starbucks expresso
> would be
> a nice treat while combing the  deserts.  And it would be
> nice to
> have a payphone in the middle of the  desert, or cellphone
> service
> to call a tow truck.  But these people have  lived this way
> for
> centuries and they are fine with it.  We, as 
> "civilized" westerners,
> are the ones who have a problem with their apparent 
> poverty.  At
> what cost does one sell a soul?  To be honest, I don't 
> know if this
> represents "progress" to any of the locals. 
> Sure, it means  a few
> more pity dollars thrown their way by wealthy travelistas,
> but it  
> also means the disappearance of another culture that has
> existed  for
> centuries without outside interference and dominance.
> 
> Having said  all of that, litter is natural places disgusts
> me.  And
> I have never  understood what it is about being poor than
> means a
> person has an excuse to  be filthy.  I drive past
> economically-depressed 
> areas and see dozens of  able-bodied people lounging around
> or loitering around 
> while they are surrounded  by trash everywhere.  None of
> them think to take 5 
> minutes and pick it up  and put it in a dumpster that is
> usually 10 feet away.  
> Apparently being  poor is
> intrinsically related to tolerance of trash and dirt.  Even
> if I  was
> spit-poor, I'd have the cleanest and neatest mud hut in
> the  village.
> 
> Well, I guess when we have a wall-to-wall neon and concrete
>  world, then
> we'll finally be happy....right?  Or will this
> compulsive  need to 
> spread "progress" extend to other cultures we
> encounter  while
> exploring space?
> 
> Best regards and clear skies from the  closet-mountain-man,
> 
> MikeG