[meteorite-list] Just Another Question

[Pete Shugar]

I never said he was throwing the object. What I said was "impart excape 
velocity" to the object. This can be from a number of ways, such as an 
attached rocket, for example.
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "AL Mitterling" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Just Another Question


> Hi Doug, Pete and all,
>
> Thanks Doug for the figures you would have to throw at. Looks like our 
> astronaut isn't going to be launching anything too far out. I appreciate 
> the figures to back up my claim!!
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
> mexicodoug at aim.com wrote:
>
>> Al M. wrote:
>>
>> "I don't think it would be possible for an astronaut to throw an object, 
>> rock or otherwise out of the orbit of the Earth."
>>
>> Hi Al, Pete, Friends and Listees,
>>
>> Haven't kept with this thread, but I thought I'd add this info for the 
>> throwing arm of the astronaut to create an artificial meteorite from some 
>> favorite heights.
>>
>> I noticed Dr. Grossman mentioned the need for extraordinary evidence 
>> (i.e., claims by necessity must be treated with skepicism, until at least 
>> someone can show you a piece of it).
>>
>> Here are some of the "physics": the minimum speeds the clever Astronaut 
>> would have TO THROW any object to gain an independent orbit from Earth:
>>
>>> From the International Space station (One of the lowest satellites):
>>
>> 11,412 mph (7,091 Km/h)
>>
>>> From a GPS satellite (nearly the highest):
>>
>> 3,692 mph (5,941 Km/h)
>>
>> He has to be clever as he needs to throw it exactly in his direction of 
>> motion to make the satellite's speed additive and also away from the Moon 
>> so that doesn't add significant additional speed required.  I just used 
>> the 11.2 km/s value at Earth's surface which fails to take into 
>> consideration the air resistance (this is only partly why expecting 
>> material to survive the shear force going up through Earth's atmosphere 
>> is an Extra-ordinary claim).  Not a problem - these are the right answers 
>> for space.
>>
>> The best baseball players on Earth have been clocked at around 100.9 mph.
>> The best Jai-alai ball has been levered at about 188 mph.
>> These speeds are taken over a very short distance from the throwing arm 
>> on Earth, so would be nearly the same in space.
>>
>> BTW, if an astronaut on the Moon wanted to "throw" something out of Lunar 
>> orbit, he would need to throw at 5,315 mph (8,554 Km/h) which would leave 
>> it barely moseying away from a Lunar orbit, but he would need it to end 
>> up at a minumum of over 3,220 mph (5,188 Km/h) more to then escape Earth.
>>
>> Throwing things at these speeds is of course hypothetical given the 
>> capabilities.
>>
>> Back to the original question Earth meteorite possible? to comment: These 
>> same capabilities need to be taken into consideration with regards to the 
>> mass integrity of any Earth ejecta.  Assuming an object can hit Earth 
>> fast enough to impart sufficient velocity at cratering which will survive 
>> the trip back up and more importantly an order of magnitude more to rip 
>> it from Earth's gravitational grasp, is like assuming you can find a 
>> Nolan Ryan to pitch a ball at about 12,000 mph. It is also a possibility 
>> that no physical Nolan Ryan exists.
>>
>> Earth meteorites don't have a chance due to this reason, unless you make 
>> one modifying assumption: That the original impactor causing them creates 
>> a transient vacuum behind it long and straight enough for backspauled 
>> material to find its way out.  THAT is an extraordinary claim unless we 
>> are talking major planet smasher and vapor condensation in space just to 
>> make sure the ejecta aren't too small or just plasma or molecules!  Ojo, 
>> this means the cloud MUST condense in outer space while it is moving away 
>> at these speeds.  That just adds another degree of complexity.  Not 
>> impossible, of course.  The jury is still out.  I'd repost a recent 
>> answer about 6 months ago I made talking about the atmospheric dynamics 
>> required for Earth meteorites to happen but I'm not good at maintaning 
>> these old met-list links as some others :(
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Doug
>
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