[meteorite-list] Just Another Question

[AL Mitterling]

Hi Doug, Pete and all,

Thanks Doug for the figures you would have to throw at. Looks like our 
astronaut isn't going to be launching anything too far out. I appreciate 
the figures to back up my claim!!

--AL Mitterling

mexicodoug at aim.com wrote:

> Al M. wrote:
>
> "I don't think it would be possible for an astronaut to throw an 
> object, rock or otherwise out of the orbit of the Earth."
>
> Hi Al, Pete, Friends and Listees,
>
> Haven't kept with this thread, but I thought I'd add this info for the 
> throwing arm of the astronaut to create an artificial meteorite from 
> some favorite heights.
>
> I noticed Dr. Grossman mentioned the need for extraordinary evidence 
> (i.e., claims by necessity must be treated with skepicism, until at 
> least someone can show you a piece of it).
>
> Here are some of the "physics": the minimum speeds the clever 
> Astronaut would have TO THROW any object to gain an independent orbit 
> from Earth:
>
>> From the International Space station (One of the lowest satellites):
>
> 11,412 mph (7,091 Km/h)
>
>> From a GPS satellite (nearly the highest):
>
> 3,692 mph (5,941 Km/h)
>
> He has to be clever as he needs to throw it exactly in his direction 
> of motion to make the satellite's speed additive and also away from 
> the Moon so that doesn't add significant additional speed required.  I 
> just used the 11.2 km/s value at Earth's surface which fails to take 
> into consideration the air resistance (this is only partly why 
> expecting material to survive the shear force going up through Earth's 
> atmosphere is an Extra-ordinary claim).  Not a problem - these are the 
> right answers for space.
>
> The best baseball players on Earth have been clocked at around 100.9 mph.
> The best Jai-alai ball has been levered at about 188 mph.
> These speeds are taken over a very short distance from the throwing 
> arm on Earth, so would be nearly the same in space.
>
> BTW, if an astronaut on the Moon wanted to "throw" something out of 
> Lunar orbit, he would need to throw at 5,315 mph (8,554 Km/h) which 
> would leave it barely moseying away from a Lunar orbit, but he would 
> need it to end up at a minumum of over 3,220 mph (5,188 Km/h) more to 
> then escape Earth.
>
> Throwing things at these speeds is of course hypothetical given the 
> capabilities.
>
> Back to the original question Earth meteorite possible? to comment: 
> These same capabilities need to be taken into consideration with 
> regards to the mass integrity of any Earth ejecta.  Assuming an object 
> can hit Earth fast enough to impart sufficient velocity at cratering 
> which will survive the trip back up and more importantly an order of 
> magnitude more to rip it from Earth's gravitational grasp, is like 
> assuming you can find a Nolan Ryan to pitch a ball at about 12,000 
> mph. It is also a possibility that no physical Nolan Ryan exists.
>
> Earth meteorites don't have a chance due to this reason, unless you 
> make one modifying assumption: That the original impactor causing them 
> creates a transient vacuum behind it long and straight enough for 
> backspauled material to find its way out.  THAT is an extraordinary 
> claim unless we are talking major planet smasher and vapor 
> condensation in space just to make sure the ejecta aren't too small or 
> just plasma or molecules!  Ojo, this means the cloud MUST condense in 
> outer space while it is moving away at these speeds.  That just adds 
> another degree of complexity.  Not impossible, of course.  The jury is 
> still out.  I'd repost a recent answer about 6 months ago I made 
> talking about the atmospheric dynamics required for Earth meteorites 
> to happen but I'm not good at maintaning these old met-list links as 
> some others :(
>
> Best wishes,
> Doug