[meteorite-list] OCEANS ON MARS

[Norbert Classen]

Hi Rob, Mark, and All,

While I doubt that someone will be able to find/prove life on extrasolar
planets during the next ten years I'm personally convinced that life itself
is not that rare in the vastness that we tend to call "our" universe. Just
imagine the billions of galaxies, each bearing billions and billions of
stars, planets, moons, asteroids, comets with water and amino acids, sugar,
and all the stuff necessary to plant the seed of life on more than one
remote world that we tend to call "our" planet Earth. If the formation of
life is THAT improbable, how does it come that WE are here?

If you want a good read on this issue, try Christian de Duve's "Vital Dust:
Life as a Cosmic Imperative". No, de Duve's not one of those confused
dreamers, he's a renowned scientist and a Nobel prize winner... and his book
is a real blast. Maybe you will change your mind on what it takes to form
life in the first place, from a biochemical point of view.

Life rulez!
Norbert


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

>>I get more convinced as time passes, that we *will*
>>find either active or fossil life forms on Mars in my lifetime.
>>
>>    
>>
>Don't kid yourself Mark,
>
>Did you ever do that calculation in physics where you If not, it works out
that the chances are that you
>have to leave the box for something like 10^20 times
>longer than the universe has been around for to have a
>chance of it happening or something ridiculous like
>that. My point is that random chemical production of complex
>amino acids is one thing but DNA is quite the other
>and how it manages to develop from a molecule to
>sentience is off any scale.
>  
>
Completely agree - but we're here to argue about it,  right?  So, given 
the universe has a greater than zero chance of life emerging (which I 
hope we can all agree on, even on metlist), it either happens in a tiny 
fraction of potential cases, or we're unique.  Since I specifically 
mentioned Mars, I'd argue that the chances are somewhat higher than 
(arbitrarily) 10^20, because we share a common environment.  I'm not 
positing panspermia (nor ruling it out);  just noting the fact that we 
have a stable single star, a habitable zone which extended further out 
in geological time, and demonstrably a place where the right stuff 
emerged to do it at least once.  I think Mars is a hot bet, and getting 
hotter by the year :)

>A group of British scientists predicted finding life
>on extrasolar planets in the next 10 years in the last
>week. How presumptious is this??? 
>
Probably pretty presumptious, I agree;  but this species does tend to 
get a little excitable on this topic.  I offer myself as a type specimen 
in evidence ;)

>You really have to believe that life will form wherever it can which is not
the
>same as life finding a way to hang on 
>  
>
Personally, I do believe that life will form, a lot of the time, in an 
environment where the conditions are right.  You're completely  right in 
about 'forming' vs 'hanging on' in a place where it's close to extant 
life, like sulphur vents vs rainforests - but as I say above, narrow the 
field of view.  Maybe in our solar system, Mars is the sulphur vent to 
our rainforest?

>I REALLY think it will be. (ohhh, geez, I hope proof isn't found next week)
>
I'll happily join you in humble pie and a decent pint if we ever get 
proof either way :)  Hell, I'll buy you a pint anyway and we can argue 
till the cows come home 8)

Best
Mark