[meteorite-list] OCEANS ON MARS

[Mark Crawford]

>>I get more convinced as time passes, that we *will*
>>find either active or fossil life forms on Mars in my lifetime.
>>
>>    
>>
>Don't kid yourself Mark,
>
>Did you ever do that calculation in physics where you If not, it works out that the chances are that you
>have to leave the box for something like 10^20 times
>longer than the universe has been around for to have a
>chance of it happening or something ridiculous like
>that. My point is that random chemical production of complex
>amino acids is one thing but DNA is quite the other
>and how it manages to develop from a molecule to
>sentience is off any scale.
>  
>
Completely agree - but we're here to argue about it,  right?  So, given 
the universe has a greater than zero chance of life emerging (which I 
hope we can all agree on, even on metlist), it either happens in a tiny 
fraction of potential cases, or we're unique.  Since I specifically 
mentioned Mars, I'd argue that the chances are somewhat higher than 
(arbitrarily) 10^20, because we share a common environment.  I'm not 
positing panspermia (nor ruling it out);  just noting the fact that we 
have a stable single star, a habitable zone which extended further out 
in geological time, and demonstrably a place where the right stuff 
emerged to do it at least once.  I think Mars is a hot bet, and getting 
hotter by the year :)

>A group of British scientists predicted finding life
>on extrasolar planets in the next 10 years in the last
>week. How presumptious is this??? 
>
Probably pretty presumptious, I agree;  but this species does tend to 
get a little excitable on this topic.  I offer myself as a type specimen 
in evidence ;)

>You really have to believe that life will form wherever it can which is not the
>same as life finding a way to hang on 
>  
>
Personally, I do believe that life will form, a lot of the time, in an 
environment where the conditions are right.  You're completely  right in 
about 'forming' vs 'hanging on' in a place where it's close to extant 
life, like sulphur vents vs rainforests - but as I say above, narrow the 
field of view.  Maybe in our solar system, Mars is the sulphur vent to 
our rainforest?

>I REALLY think it will be. (ohhh, geez, I hope proof isn't found next week)
>
I'll happily join you in humble pie and a decent pint if we ever get 
proof either way :)  Hell, I'll buy you a pint anyway and we can argue 
till the cows come home 8)

Best
Mark