[meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II

[Sterling K. Webb]

Martin Altmann said:

> There were always wars, wars, wars...
> funny enough, people now ranting about
> the European Union always forget...

1337-1453 Hundred Years' War
1455-1485 Wars of the Roses
1496-1499 Russo-Swedish War of 1496-1499
1522-1559 Habsburg-Valois Wars
1554-1557 Russo-Swedish War of 1554-1557
1558-1583 Livonian War
1568-1648 Eighty Years' War
1590-1595 Russo-Swedish War of 1590-1595
1594-1603 Nine Years' War (Ireland)
1610-1617 Ingrian War
1618-1648 Thirty Years' War
1641-1649 Wars of Castro
1641-1653 Irish Confederate Wars
1642-1651 English Civil War
1644-1650 Scottish Civil War
1656-1658 Russo-Swedish War of 1656-1658
1667-1668 War of Devolution
1667-1683 Great Turkish War
1688-1691 Williamite War in Ireland
1700-1721 Great Northern War
1701-1713 War of the Spanish Succession
1733-1738 War of the Polish Succession
1739-1740 War of Jenkins' Ear
1740-1748 War of the Austrian Succession
1741-1743 Russo-Swedish War of 1741-1743
1756-1763 Seven Years' War
1788-1790 Russo-Swedish War of 1788-1790
1789-1799 French Revolution
1798 Irish Rebellion of 1798
1792-1815 Napoleonic Wars
1808-1809 Finnish War
1848-1866 Italian Independence wars
1848-1849 First Italian Independence War
1859 Second Italian Independence War
1866 Third Italian Independence War
1854-1856 Crimean War
1866-1866 Austro-Prussian War
1870-1871 Franco-Prussian War
1877-1878 Russo-Turkish War
1893-1896 Cod War of 1893
1897 First Greco-Turkish War
1912-1913 Balkan Wars
1914-1918 World War I
1916 Easter Rising
1917-1920 Estonian Liberation War
1918-1919 Czechoslovakia-Hungary War
1918 Finnish Civil War
1918-1920 Russian Civil War
1919-1921 Irish War of Independence
1922-1923 Irish Civil War
1936-1939 Spanish Civil War
1939-1940 Winter War
1939-1945 World War II
1958 First Cod War
1972-1973 Second Cod War
1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus
1975-1976 Third Cod War
1994-1996 First Chechen War
1991 War in Slovenia
1991-1995 Croatian War of Independence
1992-1995 War in Bosnia and Herzegovina
1996-1999 Kosovo War
1999-present Second Chechen War
2001 Conflict in Macedonia
2001 Conflict in Southern Serbia

Only 63 wars in 500 years, or one every 7.94
years. Eleven wars in 33 years (1912-1945) is
probably a world record. Doesn't count wars
that Europeans participated in that didn't take
place IN Europe (otherwise the list would be
120, 150, or 200 wars long).

I feel totally abashed. The USA has only had
14 or 15 wars in 225 years, if you count our
War for Independency, John Adams' undeclared
naval war on France in 1798, two "wars" with
Barbary pirates, the Whiskey Rebellion (whiskey
lost, BTW), and all the wars we participated in
that were outside the United States. We've never
managed to have a war 100 years long or even
30 years long (although we seem to be trying to
do that in Iraq). And we've certainly never managed
to have a war as magnificently named as "The
War of Jenkins' Ear"! Now, that's how to name
a war! Clear, concise, and everybody knows
exactly what it's all about.


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: "'MexicoDoug'" <MexicoDoug at aim.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II


Hi Doug,

so flagrant is my commercialism not.
Yes, I do have a slice of Elbogen left for sale, but I guess, if you'd ask
Dieter Heinlein, you would pay 10$ less per gram.

For the spelling of uncle Alois I always find two variants:

"Widmanstätten"
(with a single "n" and the German letter for the diphthong, the "a" with the
2 dots above) or

"Beck-Widmannstetter".
Which one was more in use? I don't know. We have to ask the list-members
from Austria to look in the specific biographical lexika.

There still exists several descendants today, they spell themselves
"Beckh-Widmannstetter".

Ehm, Doug, the story with the font is different.
It's the most famous and incredible meteorite legend in history.

Be prepared!

There was a prophecy about the Burggraf-Klumpen.
It said, whenever it will be let down into the font of Loket castle,
it will come up again.

Well, so once it was let down in the font, and after a while, they tore him
out gain.

Spooky, isn't it Doug?

I forgot where I read that story and also why the chunk was hidden at which
opportunity.
Whether it was in the Napoleonic wars, or whether Wallenstein wanted to
found bullets out of it, whether some Hussites were hiding it...

There were always wars, wars, wars...funny enough, people now ranting about
the European Union always forget, in what for a privileged situation they're
living. 60 years without greater wars.

Buckleboo!
Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
MexicoDoug
Gesendet: Freitag, 24. November 2006 22:32
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II

OK, Martin, Nice post, I'm convinced that, if I can ever possess a specimen
of Elbogen, I won't have any choice than to acquire it from one of Chladni's

authentic airs.:-)

You mentioned our Widmannstaetten: Alois Beck Edler von Widmannstetter....

I was very curious about the spelling you used, an alternate from that which

we are accustomed...Can you tell us Teutonically challenged volks a little
about the reason for this difference?

Ahhh, and those kind and ever-so-considerate Frenchmen.  Why do you suppose
they would have mocked so cruelly their Bohemian hosts by spitefully lifting

up the unliftable Elbogen iron meteorite and tossing it into a well to
languish there for decades?  Was it simply with the arrogance to say, "Non,
nous'sommes non so greedyyyy, looooouky, devons-nous procéder à toss your
rrrevered Cloompain to zz bottom of z pit where he can hhhrrust avay....oui
oui , ou la laaaa, Kaput et Voilà  La Boheme!! "   No wonder the Austrians
taught those savage beastly French a lesson in humility and kicked them out
on their derrières shortly afterward... for which the French rewarded them
later by overrunning Munich.  Well being the Francophile I am, and still
astonished this could happen, I must say in their defense that the French
Secret Order of the Guardians of Ensisheim has brought back great honor and
civility upon their countrymen after that fateful moment of the aggression
of Elbogen...

Best wishes,
Doug

PS nice post Matthias, too!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: "'MexicoDoug'" <MexicoDoug at aim.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II


Hola Doug,

yah and the Grimm brothers weren't only collectors of tales, but titans of
linguistics in writing the first modern comprehensive German dictionary.

Btw. Widmannstetter used Elbogen for his direct printing of his famous
Thopmson structures.

Goethe celebrated his 75th birthday on the castle of Elbogen (Loket), I'm
not sure, whether he saw the Klumpen still there.
Anyway, when ha was young and visited the stone of Ensisheim in the church,
he made pubertal fooling about the people being so superstitious.

Again, if once Vassiliev won't be so busy anymore, he has to found a
meteorite fair on Loket castle. Nice counterpart to Ensisheim.

Huh, I think I'm a capital sinner, I don't think, that I would be able to
lift a Klumpen of more than 2 hundredweights...

At least in the stories (there exist another version of the Burggraf
metamorphosis) there are some slight meteoritical appeals: Thunder, Sounds,
light, a pit...

Buckleboo!
Martin

PS: There must be another story from that Klumpen, that it was hidden in the
font of the castle - perhaps during the Napoleonic wars?



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: MexicoDoug [mailto:MexicoDoug at aim.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 24. November 2006 20:08
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the Buckleboo!  It had become such a familiar part of the list,
like an attention-getting favorite family member I started to miss it....

Now, whoever said German couldn't be a consonant language, hasn't read
enough of "Klumpen klingenden Metall" and such.  Those Grimm boys really
provided a capsule of time, the scientists they were, so far ahead in
educating toddling future meteoriticists.  Thanks for the tale of the
Bohemian iron Elbogen, the year assumed ca. 1400 witnessed fall that was
recorded more as conversion of a greedy baron than a meteoritical tale.  One

wonders what Widmaenstatten was really out to discover when he stuck a slab
of Elbogen in a Bunsen Burner to see what would happen. It must have been
quite a BuckleBOO! for Widmaenstatten to see the steely Baron's jailbars and

bones developing in the flame of that bewitching Klumpen of Metall.  This
relationship of meteorites to avariciousness and piousness illustrated here
and in the Grimms' tale is pleasantly enlightening.

One can see the original view of the of the Burggraf that Widmanstaetten saw

courtesy of Jörn Koblitz here:
http://www.metbase.de/printable/images/schreibers3_650.jpg

And Chladni himself had an etched knife forged from Elbogen which is now at
the Berlin Museum for any or all the motivated to see!
http://euromin.w3sites.net/Nouveau_site/musees/berlin/Website-dt/Elbogen.htm
l

And another book to possibly add to the list:

KNAGSTED by Gustev Wied
Finally, here's another book you don't have to buy and can read online,
Knagsted, by the Danish novelist Gustav Wied.  That is, if you can at least
read Rigsdansk... It was a satire published in 1902 and is based in part on
the Elbogen legends...
Excerpt: **"Samt (hvad der er forbavsende interessant): "Der verwünschte
Burggraf" (en ond og haard Borgherre, der "in grauer Vorzeit" paa
Foranledning af sin Umenneskelighed og en fattig Kones indtrængende Bøn til
Gud blev forvandlet til) "ein ursprünglich 108 kg schwerer Meteorstein von
der Gestalt eines Pferdekopfes. Gegenwürtig aber ist nur der kleinere etwa
22 kg schwere Theil desselben zu sehen, während sich der grÖssere im k. k.
Hof-Naturaliencabinet in Wien befindet" ...**

complete Danish text (Lars, please help!):
http://www.bjornetjenesten.dk/teksterdk/knagsted.htm

Marty, You've really earned your Austral-Germaniac heiritage today...
Congratulations !!!

Notice of my special request is kindly appreciated,
Buckleboo too,
Dougy


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: "'MexicoDoug'" <MexicoDoug at aim.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:43 AM
Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II


Hi Doug,

apropos Grimm bros.
Did you know, that they mentioned a very famous meteorite in their
collection of German folk tales (1816-1818)?

"Auch zeigt man auf dem Rathause zu Elbogen noch jetzt die verbannten
ruchlosen und goldgeizigen Burggrafen in einem Klumpen klingenden Metall.
Der Sage nach soll niemand, der mit einer Todsünde befleckt ist, diesen
Klumpen in die Höhe heben können."

Uuuh my poor English, a Matteo version could read like this:

"Also, in the townhall of Elbogen still today the banned heinous and
gold-greedy burgraves are exhibited in a lump of clinking metal.
Acording to legend nobody, who's imbrued by a capital sin, will be able to
lift this lump."

To translate the tale of the metamorphosis of the Burgrave into the
meteorite, I leave to others (Peter, Bernd?):

Der verwunschene Markgraf von Elbogen

        In grauer Vorzeit herrschte über Elbogen ein gar harter Mann, der
Markgraf von Vohburg, der seine Untertanen und Diener, besonders die
Bewohner der Robitsch - einer Elbogener Gegend - mit schwerem Frondienst
bedrückte. Konnte einer den Willen des strengen Herren nicht nachkommen,
wurde er sicherlich in den Turm geworfen und jämmerlich gezüchtigt. Über dem
Haupttor der Burg ließ er eine Glocke befestigen, welche zur harten Arbeit
rief. Zu Anfang ertönte sie wohl selten, später aber immer häufiger; denn
der Markgraf wurde immer grausamer und habsüchtiger, das Mitleid schien
gänzlich von ihm gewichen zu sein.
        Eines Sonntagmorgens stand er über dem Tor und beobachtete die in
das nahe Gotteshaus wandelnden Scharen. Und es traf sich, dass eine arme
Witwe ihm an diesem Tag eine Zahlung zu leisten hatte, sie hatte aber
nichts, dass sie diese hätte entrichten können. Vielleicht, dachte sie,
stimmt die heilige Sonntagsfeier den strengen Gebieter etwas zum Mitleid,
und ging mit ihren unmündigen Kindern an der Hand, zu ihm hin und bat
flehend um Nachsicht und Barmherzigkeit. "Habet Erbarmen mit mir! Der
Ernährer der Familie ist gestorben und die Arbeit meiner Hände reicht eben
nur kümmerlich hin, mich und diese Waisen zu erhalten!"
        Das Angesicht des Markgrafen verfinsterte sich bei der Rede wie der
Himmel, der sich eben mit schweren Gewitterwolken umzog. Die arme Witwe bat
nochmals und auch die Kleinen erhoben zu ihm ihre Hände. Doch das Herz des
Herren blieb unbewegt und ließ sich durch den Jammer dieser Armen nicht
erweichen. Zornesglut erfüllte sein Antlitz und seine Stimme donnerte auf
sie herab: "Hinweg aus meinen Augen! Zahle was Du schuldig bist, sonnst
lasse ich Dich in den Turm werfen!" Da raffte sich das Weib empor und rief,
während das Donnern durch das Tal dröhnte, dem Fühllosen zu: "Weh` Dir,
Vohburg! In dieser Stunde noch wirst Du in Stein verwandelt werden".
        Ein Schrei scholl durch die Lüfte - der Markgraf war verschwunden
und dort, vor er stand, lag ein Klumpen - der verwunschene Markgraf von
Elbogen.

from
Stanilav Burachovic: Sagen der Karlsbader Landschaft


Martin, on your special request: Buckleboo!




-------
STAR MONEY by the Bros. Altmann (jeje)
A short fable summarized by our very favorite Germans, based on the original

which was probably much older than the 1803 L'Aigle fall itself.  Gives
great insight to cultural fantasies of the significance of meteorites in the

deep recesses of human thought.  Interestingly, in an odd twist, it
personifies what we all yearn in meteorite hunting in one form or
another...READ THE ENGLISH translation free here, no need to buy the book,
compiled by the namsake of Chladni's heirs:  Story featured in Nation
Geographic:

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/grimm/star_money2.html

Best wishes, Doug

______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list