[meteorite-list] Handling rust problems after buying Irons

[Martin Altmann]

"At this point nothing is proven, and fraud could only be if something were
"hidden purposefully"

Yah, but what will happen, if you're going with your dead pelican to the pet
shop, telling the seller: you purposefully have hidden, that this bird is
not eating grass, but fish!

"to have fissures along 
interfaces where rust could brew"...

Could, but not necessarily has to.

"negative impact on the sharing of cutting and 
conservation info for meteorites"

Oldest sentence: Know your seller.
For most of the professionals, a proper preparation is such a matter of
course, that they never would have the idea to even mention it.

I mean, if he's that seller I have in mind, then it is an amateur, here and
there selling a little piece from his home meteorite Morasko, a young boy,
who can't have the experience like a veteran collector or preparator, maybe
his English is worse than mine and the only thing, I consider to be strange
in his auctions is, that he uses a historic print of the fall of Montpreis
for advertising his Morasko.

Doug, imagine that guy, who bought your large Toluca will slice it and will
find out, that it's a ruster. Did you supply him with the proper warning, as
you write here, that it is necessary?

Huh, have we to instruct the poor Polish boy, if he'll sell his used Polski
Fiat on ebay, to add a warning: Caution! Driving causes horrible losses of
lives? The consumption of burgers can cause sincere heart deseases. The
consumption of cotton socks causes constiveness.

Doug, list, World: Iron meteorites do rust. That's trivial.


Almost each advanced collector has some samples of irons, which need special
care. Forget for a moment about the 10-20 mass irons. Meteorites a rare and
historical iron meteorites are more rare than historic stones.
I know only a few, who would reject a Hraschina, a Tuxon Ring, a Willamette,
if priced right, only because they can rust.

And what shall we do with all the Brahins, Brenhams, Campos, Moraskos -
shall we bring them to the junkyard, cause they could cause troubles in a
collectors hand?

Ze Martinho



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: MexicoDoug [mailto:MexicoDoug at aim.com] 
Gesendet: Montag, 20. November 2006 17:59
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Handling rust problems after buying Irons

Martin wrote:

"you have to be careful in blaming someone being fraudulent.  In this case 
you have to turn the angle.  It would have been a fraud, if the seller would

have stated, that his piece
would be stable."

Hi Martin,

I tried to be very careful, and want to clarify in case you didn't catch 
exactly my thinking originally on this.  In no way am I suggesting fraud was

demonstrated in the present case described.  But fraud isn't as simple as 
you state either.  The Cliff Notes summary version of what I tried to say:

- At this point nothing is proven, and fraud could only be if something were

hidden purposefully - so I ask (I suspect it is not the present case), 
hoping to demonstrate where the "bad seller" line hypothetically could be 
drawn and find universal agreement.
- In the case of Morasko, it it particularly prone to have fissures along 
interfaces where rust could brew due to the meteoroid's shock history
- Nothing in the post shows the Seller to have done anything wrong, but the 
apparent cesion of communication is something that merits the loupe
- It stinks to have an iron rust and even if it's one's own fault we should 
be nice about it to all those affected as it is the nature of the beast.
- Irons do rust and there are genetic (locality and individual) as well as 
behavioral (preparation and care) reasons for the rusting
- Commerce has a very negative impact on the sharing of cutting and 
conservation info for meteorites (soap-box comment we must improve on this 
before someone else eventually does that job for us)
- There wasn't enough info provided to judge the present case
- A list complaint was apparently filed as a last resort effort to force 
continued communication with the Seller
- I would really like to know what exactly the "obscure suggestion" to 
conserve the meteorite as that would give an arms' length temperature of the

problem
-And the latter would contribute to great list content

I am neutral in this until more info is provided - not assuming anything 
either way except the happening of 4 unhappy sales and a big funeral, and 
wishing the sad participants my best,

Best wishes and thanks for the nice comments on the book,
Doug