[meteorite-list] Michael's meteorite market trends

[joseph_town at att.net]

My God/god,

You two understand each other. It's frightening.

Bill


 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Michael L Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
> OK,
>         I think, after reading all those words, the objection is to
> the implication I made that one should not purchase or trade
> with a dealer that is not "established" - and you are right, that
> is irrational.... and I apologize for the unintended implication.
>         However, I was actually quoting a phrase oft heard in the
> past wherein "established" and "reputable" were always linked
> & I did not mean to imply the former.
>         In fact, in the article I state:
>         " It is one thing to buy from a "new" dealer who
>         is advertising in METEORITE MAGAZINE and even
>         though not around a long time, has established
>         as fact an exemplary treatment of customers,
>         standing by everything s/he sells with a life time
>         guarantee of authenticity, accepting any and all
>         returns should a customer be dissatisfied in any
>         way, etc."
> --
>          So, to rephrase: it is asinine to deal with people who's
> reputations for dishonest dealing proceed them.(period -
> this is the main thrust of the article)
>         As an add on, I believe one should also proceed with
> caution when dealing with someone yet to establish their
> reliability. I state this more as reasonable behavior than
> behavior which I always practice, myself. I tend to take
> people at their word until they prove themselves unworthy
> of trust. 
>         At any rate, sorry to all if there was any confusion in
> my intended statements.
>         Best wishes, Michael
>           
>          
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> on 6/9/05 3:27 PM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at MexicoDoug at aol.com wrote:
> 
> > Michael B. wrote:
> >> This sort of ignores the fact that I was  specifically referring to the
> >> practice of dealing with known criminals  and rip off artists.
> > 
> > Martin A. must have seen Star Wars dubbed in German if at all (Martin -
> > Michael signed his article in Yodish.  That is where it started).   Dave
> > Freeman 
> > vanquished Yoda by hallucinating about "good herb", now Yoda has  left...
> > 
> > Michael, I repeat Yoda's carefully addressed thoughts on your  theme of
> > purchasing from SCAM ARTISTS which you clearly expressed in the  article:
> > "Foolish 
> > then is it, morals they have not.  The Jedi who  heeds not the counsel of the
> > Force, to the dark side he listens, yes...."
> > 
> > Yoda is definitely not ignoring you and hopes that, "disagreement alone you
> > seek not, for disagreement then find you shall...hmmmm...."  In  translating
> > his Yodish, he says he agrees with you that once the dark side is  detected,
> > one is a fool to deal again with a particular individual....
> > 
> > The objection is that in making your general SCAMMER ATTACK, with  which we
> > agree completely, we noticed clearly a negative  energy and a mixing of the
> > dark side with respect to the "newbe", unknowns,  even though you may have not
> > intended this at all.  Yoda cautioned me  always to give a "newbe" the benefit
> > of the doubt and thus create positive  energy and a greater network within the
> > "hobby" and for growth.  Yoda  favors the stimulation and grooming of good
> > dealers right from birth to become  good, contributing citizens of the
> > Republic, 
> > and is troubled by several  statements in your article, including but not
> > limited to what I will refer to as  "Michael's Mantra":
> > 
> > Michael's Mantra:
> > *It wasn't long ago that collectors frequently uttered the admonishment,
> > "buy only from established dealers with flawless reputations." It isn't as
> > though there are not enough of us to go around. Yet, now that it clearly
> > matters, 
> > it seems I haven't heard that phrase in recent timesŠ.*
> > 
> > I have problems with your logic - but not at all with you, who I  respect as
> > generally a positive, contributiong member to our community.   This logic to
> > me is much worse than the type that resulted in the recent Iraqi  War.  The
> > fact that the mantra may be a suspicion in ONE or SOME  case(s) doesn't mean
> > it 
> > is true in ALL cases, and to act this way is not without  it's negative side
> > effects.  So it  is potentially a very damaging  mantra.  And of course the
> > market recognizes this, though not in the  orderly fashion we can easily pin
> > down...
> > 
> > A dealer who is not established, obviously has no reputation, and if
> > anything, it is up to the established dealers with flawless reputations to be
> > stewards of trust.  If that trust is violated, your article rings  true.  If
> > not, it 
> > is a mantra that becomes for a bizarre barrier to entry  for many nice
> > meteorite collectors out there and creates a stoogy community  concentrated
> > among 
> > fewer.  My view is the more the merrier, and that is why  I was so quick to
> > respond to Martin A's exciting post of more European friends  to make.  In
> > Martin 
> > H's post he also makes a few very good points, and I  would go further and say
> > rather than attempt to protect a "newbe" which might  been seen by the
> > greenhorn as condescending, I would encourage him to be  conservative at first
> > but 
> > most definitely purposely depart from mantra and make  new trades with new
> > friends from new places.  The super dealers have  nothing to worry about.  We
> > do 
> > business with them not so much as for their  reputation, as for our personal
> > experiences with them.  That is why Martin  H. and Serge V. are gentle giants
> > among their peers for me and one or  two BIG guys are of more questionable
> > repute...No substitute for  a calculated approach to crack open the market.
> > 
> > Regarding dealers and collectors, to me the line between "us" and "them"
> > doesn't exist.  We are all dealers and collectors and trade,  sales and
> > purchases 
> > are necessary for any hardworking collector to build a great  collection,
> > necessitating our bending over backwards to create positive  energy.  There is
> > nothing wrong with making a livelihood out of it as well,  of course, but such
> > superdealers shan't overshadow the thousands more who are  working diligently
> > for enough feedback to have a nice reputation, too.
> > 
> > So when we discover and sufficiently confirm dishonesty, ostracism is the
> > modus operandi, but before that encouragement should be the rule.  We have
> > seen 
> > enough superdealer wars and heard what has been said to know that  no person
> > walks on water, which clouds with the profit motive taking front  row.  We
> > need to take small, calculated-informed risks to create a more  interesting
> > and 
> > robust trade with each "newbe" that is attracted.   Otherwise we could become
> > stuck with many one time sales rusting away in drawers  across the world where
> > interests have moved on...
> > 
> > You article for me had one very cogent point, but some spare baggage from
> > the past, that you seem to be shedding quite conservatively...If that baggage
> > it 
> > would be a pleasure to serve on Captain Blood's discrete scammer lynch
> > team...
> > Saludos, Doug
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > on 6/9/05 9:32 AM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at MexicoDoug at aol.com  wrote:
> > 
> >> These new dealers, if fear us they do, help us they  will  not. If hate us
> >> they do, hunt us they will.  Think Yoda,  good is it,  yes....Encouragement
> >> from 
> >> us, this buying of  meteorites from new dealers it  is....  A positive
> > network
> >> it  makes, hmmmm....Positive Force to the hobby  it brings....yes, expand
> > does
> >> the force as our universe it will.    Agree with  Master Blood Yoda not,
> > unless
> >> seen the Dark Force once, other Jedi   masters and children do, hmmmmm.
> >> Foolish then is it, morals they  have  not.  The Jedi who heeds not the
> > counsel
> >> of 
> >> the  Force, to the dark side he  listens, yes...
> >> Yoda I  am.
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as  we are."
> > -Herb Cohen
> > --
> > If a million people  say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish  thing.
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
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> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
>  
> --
> "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
>      -Herb Cohen
> --
> If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
> 
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