[meteorite-list] Michael's meteorite market trends

[Michael L Blood]

OK,
        I think, after reading all those words, the objection is to
the implication I made that one should not purchase or trade
with a dealer that is not "established" - and you are right, that
is irrational.... and I apologize for the unintended implication.
        However, I was actually quoting a phrase oft heard in the
past wherein "established" and "reputable" were always linked
& I did not mean to imply the former.
        In fact, in the article I state:
        " It is one thing to buy from a "new" dealer who
        is advertising in METEORITE MAGAZINE and even
        though not around a long time, has established
        as fact an exemplary treatment of customers,
        standing by everything s/he sells with a life time
        guarantee of authenticity, accepting any and all
        returns should a customer be dissatisfied in any
        way, etc."
--
         So, to rephrase: it is asinine to deal with people who's
reputations for dishonest dealing proceed them.(period -
this is the main thrust of the article)
        As an add on, I believe one should also proceed with
caution when dealing with someone yet to establish their
reliability. I state this more as reasonable behavior than
behavior which I always practice, myself. I tend to take
people at their word until they prove themselves unworthy
of trust. 
        At any rate, sorry to all if there was any confusion in
my intended statements.
        Best wishes, Michael
          
         




 
on 6/9/05 3:27 PM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at MexicoDoug at aol.com wrote:

> Michael B. wrote:
>> This sort of ignores the fact that I was  specifically referring to the
>> practice of dealing with known criminals  and rip off artists.
> 
> Martin A. must have seen Star Wars dubbed in German if at all (Martin -
> Michael signed his article in Yodish.  That is where it started).   Dave
> Freeman 
> vanquished Yoda by hallucinating about "good herb", now Yoda has  left...
> 
> Michael, I repeat Yoda's carefully addressed thoughts on your  theme of
> purchasing from SCAM ARTISTS which you clearly expressed in the  article:
> "Foolish 
> then is it, morals they have not.  The Jedi who  heeds not the counsel of the
> Force, to the dark side he listens, yes...."
> 
> Yoda is definitely not ignoring you and hopes that, "disagreement alone you
> seek not, for disagreement then find you shall...hmmmm...."  In  translating
> his Yodish, he says he agrees with you that once the dark side is  detected,
> one is a fool to deal again with a particular individual....
> 
> The objection is that in making your general SCAMMER ATTACK, with  which we
> agree completely, we noticed clearly a negative  energy and a mixing of the
> dark side with respect to the "newbe", unknowns,  even though you may have not
> intended this at all.  Yoda cautioned me  always to give a "newbe" the benefit
> of the doubt and thus create positive  energy and a greater network within the
> "hobby" and for growth.  Yoda  favors the stimulation and grooming of good
> dealers right from birth to become  good, contributing citizens of the
> Republic, 
> and is troubled by several  statements in your article, including but not
> limited to what I will refer to as  "Michael's Mantra":
> 
> Michael's Mantra:
> *It wasn't long ago that collectors frequently uttered the admonishment,
> "buy only from established dealers with flawless reputations." It isn't as
> though there are not enough of us to go around. Yet, now that it clearly
> matters, 
> it seems I haven't heard that phrase in recent timesŠ.*
> 
> I have problems with your logic - but not at all with you, who I  respect as
> generally a positive, contributiong member to our community.   This logic to
> me is much worse than the type that resulted in the recent Iraqi  War.  The
> fact that the mantra may be a suspicion in ONE or SOME  case(s) doesn't mean
> it 
> is true in ALL cases, and to act this way is not without  it's negative side
> effects.  So it  is potentially a very damaging  mantra.  And of course the
> market recognizes this, though not in the  orderly fashion we can easily pin
> down...
> 
> A dealer who is not established, obviously has no reputation, and if
> anything, it is up to the established dealers with flawless reputations to be
> stewards of trust.  If that trust is violated, your article rings  true.  If
> not, it 
> is a mantra that becomes for a bizarre barrier to entry  for many nice
> meteorite collectors out there and creates a stoogy community  concentrated
> among 
> fewer.  My view is the more the merrier, and that is why  I was so quick to
> respond to Martin A's exciting post of more European friends  to make.  In
> Martin 
> H's post he also makes a few very good points, and I  would go further and say
> rather than attempt to protect a "newbe" which might  been seen by the
> greenhorn as condescending, I would encourage him to be  conservative at first
> but 
> most definitely purposely depart from mantra and make  new trades with new
> friends from new places.  The super dealers have  nothing to worry about.  We
> do 
> business with them not so much as for their  reputation, as for our personal
> experiences with them.  That is why Martin  H. and Serge V. are gentle giants
> among their peers for me and one or  two BIG guys are of more questionable
> repute...No substitute for  a calculated approach to crack open the market.
> 
> Regarding dealers and collectors, to me the line between "us" and "them"
> doesn't exist.  We are all dealers and collectors and trade,  sales and
> purchases 
> are necessary for any hardworking collector to build a great  collection,
> necessitating our bending over backwards to create positive  energy.  There is
> nothing wrong with making a livelihood out of it as well,  of course, but such
> superdealers shan't overshadow the thousands more who are  working diligently
> for enough feedback to have a nice reputation, too.
> 
> So when we discover and sufficiently confirm dishonesty, ostracism is the
> modus operandi, but before that encouragement should be the rule.  We have
> seen 
> enough superdealer wars and heard what has been said to know that  no person
> walks on water, which clouds with the profit motive taking front  row.  We
> need to take small, calculated-informed risks to create a more  interesting
> and 
> robust trade with each "newbe" that is attracted.   Otherwise we could become
> stuck with many one time sales rusting away in drawers  across the world where
> interests have moved on...
> 
> You article for me had one very cogent point, but some spare baggage from
> the past, that you seem to be shedding quite conservatively...If that baggage
> it 
> would be a pleasure to serve on Captain Blood's discrete scammer lynch
> team...
> Saludos, Doug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on 6/9/05 9:32 AM, MexicoDoug at aol.com at MexicoDoug at aol.com  wrote:
> 
>> These new dealers, if fear us they do, help us they  will  not. If hate us
>> they do, hunt us they will.  Think Yoda,  good is it,  yes....Encouragement
>> from 
>> us, this buying of  meteorites from new dealers it  is....  A positive
> network
>> it  makes, hmmmm....Positive Force to the hobby  it brings....yes, expand
> does
>> the force as our universe it will.    Agree with  Master Blood Yoda not,
> unless
>> seen the Dark Force once, other Jedi   masters and children do, hmmmmm.
>> Foolish then is it, morals they  have  not.  The Jedi who heeds not the
> counsel
>> of 
>> the  Force, to the dark side he  listens, yes...
>> Yoda I  am.
> 
> 
> --
> "You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as  we are."
> -Herb Cohen
> --
> If a million people  say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish  thing.
> 
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--
"You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are."
     -Herb Cohen
--
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.