[meteorite-list] Meteorite unclassified

Thu Jul 25 12:49:18 EDT 2024

Thank you Graham.As we both know it is extremely difficult to be absolutely sure of what we have and our sources no matter how hard we try, and I do wish that all meteorites were handled the way Almahata Sitta (thank you Siegfried Haberer and Addi Bishop) and Twannberg (Thank you Marc Jost and Beda Hoffman) are, verified and numbered. Time consuming but certainly worth it. 
Also:Most of those new meteorites transit through Morocco. Hasna Chennaoui-Aoudjehane, who is certainly an expert, is right there at the University Hassan II in Casablanca, why isn't she asked to help and check those meteorites?  
Anne BlackIMPACTIKA.comimpactika at aol.com

    On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 01:16:17 AM MDT, Graham Ensor <graham.ensor at gmail.com> wrote:   

 Yes, sorry Anne if you thought I was being critical...I'm not....that's what I was saying...you have individuals that can be traced back to the finder in that strewnfield most likely..I'm not doubting the provenances you have but have all those individuals have been analysed? Much the same as some of the very trustworthy educated and experienced Moroccan dealers and many other dealers and collectors selling individuals....so then buyers are happy to buy those individuals. Unless I am wrong and somehow all those individuals have each been analysed scientifically without cutting them? I have a wonderful David New individual Allende but I doubt it has ever been analysed properly to confirm that....I also have a wonderful uncut, individual Millbillilie from you which I'm confident is what it is without analysis.
G

Graham

On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 2:21 AM Anne Black <impactika at aol.com> wrote:

Sorry Graham, I do have provenance for all of mine.

Anne Black
IMPACTIKA.comimpactika at aol.com

    On Wednesday, July 24, 2024 at 04:27:21 PM MDT, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:   

 just an addition...an example.
Would people buy one of these Allende meteorites or similar from other dealers pages which I think we are all pretty confident are Allende's...but I'm pretty sure these were just fond in the same strewnfield and have not been analysed to make sure.
https://impactika.com/product/allende-carbonaceous/
Graham

On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 4:46 PM Rhett Bourland <rhett.bourland at gmail.com> wrote:

Honestly, just because a meteorite is found in a known strewn field doesn't automatically make it part of the same fall.  Twink Monrad found Golden Rule and Golden Mile in the Gold Basin strewn field.  Calcalong Creek was originally sold as part of the Camel Donga strew field.  NWA482 was originally thought to be a eucrite.  The folks who go to Antarctica each year go back to the same areas to find more because of the way glaciers move.
When talking about how not getting everything classified is bad for science, that isn't just about common material being sold as something much rarer.  The real danger is rare and scientifically important pieces being sold as something more common.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2024, 10:22 AM Graham Ensor <graham.ensor at gmail.com> wrote:

I see no problem in anybody saying a probable meteorite is unclassified but is likely to be a certain type. It is no different on line or throught the met list than traveling through Morocco or visiting a show, looking at hundreds of unclassified probable meteorites, and discussing the likelyhood of that or what type they may be with the seller. That's the way many dealers work to find unusual types that then get taken further to be officially classified. I see no fault with a NWA seller working in this way. The The fault comes if buyer does not then get it analysed or classified and tries to sell it on as an authentic classified meteorite. There are also thousands of meteorites amongst the hundreds of collections that came through NWA dealers from established large strewnfields which sit there as examples of a variety of falls/finds and have never been cut and classified. Just found as part of a new fall/find as it's impossible for every piece to be classified....examples are Chelyabinsk, Ribbeck, Erg Chech 002, Tissint, Holbrook,...the list is endless. I suspect very few collections consist of specimens where each individual has been classified and most have individuals of those I've mentioned (or others) that have never seen a scientist. If you are new to meteorites or have very little experience then this is probably not the avenue for you to buy for a collection unless you are happy to go to the trouble of getting analysis done.
G

On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 2:32 PM Rhett Bourland via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

Educated guesses aren't classifications.  Nobody can do that.  I've got close to a couple hundred pieces in my collection that I've built up over the past 25 years.  I own classes of meteorites that most museums don't even have because the museums that I got them from told me where the other pieces were.  I can safely say that I have handled and seen even more in that time.  The IMCA got started in my living room. I wouldn't even call something a meteorite unless it got tested.  As Anne Black recently said, people guessing what they have and presenting it as such is nothing but harmful for the science and commercial trade of these rocks and that woman has seen and handled stuff that I can only dream of.
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 3:37 PM <mendy.ouzillou at gmail.com> wrote:

Rhett,

Our North African meteorite family has earned the right to make educated guesses, especially after they have proven themselves to be reputable dealers AND have examined the specimen. They have handled far more meteorites than most dealers and collectors. There is no surprise that they, and Mohamed in particular, can tell the difference between a CO and another type of meteorite. Mohamed was fully transparent and clearly stated that it is unclassified. There is nothing inauthentic about the posting.

I have no ulterior motive in responding to this post other than desiring respectful discourse.

Sincerely,

Mendy

From: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com> On Behalf Of Rhett Bourland via Meteorite-list
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2024 9:53 AM
To: Benzaki Mohamed <kemkemexpedition at gmail.com>
Cc: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite unclassified

It's unclassified and yet you're calling it a CO?  That doesn't sound very authentic to me.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2024, 10:17 AM Benzaki Mohamed via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

Hi all members hop have a good day.

 Everyone interested will be interested by a largeste co carbonaceous unclassified please contacte  me.all beste. 

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