[meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.
cdtucson at cox.net
cdtucson at cox.net
Wed Jan 20 17:35:45 EST 2016
List,
I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I have been rock collecting for many years. I grew up in Arizona. I have thousands of rocks (literally). And yes, they are just rocks until they are identified or classified otherwise. In the past few years Blaine Reed has made verification / identification a little easier than it has ever been before. Nowadays you can have them zapped with Blain's XRF hand held X-ray gun. With this service comes advise from Blaine as well. Blaine has gathered quite a database of knowledge. Not nearly as much guess work as before. Although there is a small fee for his services, it is well worth the expense. Before the XRF era you had to show it around to different people and get there opinion of whether it was a meteorite or not. Everyone had an opinion based largely on their own experience and sometimes it was not pretty. . More recently Aziz and Sean also bought XRF's to test with so, the industry is moving in the right direction. Additionally the Scientists are more and more publishing their results on chemistry found within the meteorites so, a rather interesting evolution has occurred. It is no longer just a guess. I now have literally dozens of analyzed rocks to study and compare chemistry with. This is a very exciting time in meteorites. I so look forward to the Tucson show but, to address the topic of this thread; Like LA 001 and LA 002 Martian meteorites, many of the old finds will never have exact coordinates as back in the day this was not even possible. Nobody had a machine (GPS) that would tell you this info. Heck, you were lucky to even snap a photo of your find. Similarly the older official classifications also lack coordinates for the same reasons. I recently visited the Game and Fish to obtain a rock collecting permit. They told me all I needed to do is visit the local field office nearest the national forest and they would sell me a permit. They went on to say , with certain restrictions that I could pick up both specimens for collectors or landscape material for my yard. They followed up on 9/30/ 2015 with a call from a lady there named Bev Everson and she told me it was no big deal as long as it is surface rocks and that I do not do much damage but I do need a permit. I never mentioned the word meterite because as I said before . They are just rocks until classified. Best to all. See you at the show.
Carl
--
Love & Life
---- Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> Don't shoot the messenger. I am opposed to this overregulation myself. I
> am not a lawyer so you will have to obtain specific information directly
> from the source. In this case, the U.S. Department of the Interior. I am
> just trying to prevent field collectors from running into trouble instead of
> sticking my head in sand and ignoring that these rules/regulations/laws
> exist.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Mulgrew" <mikestang at gmail.com>
> To: "Raremeteorites" <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.
>
>
> > Then cite me title and section of the CFR that deals with meteorites.
> >
> > Michael in so. Cal.
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:11 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> > <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >> Federal rules and regulations are laws.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mulgrew"
> >> <mikestang at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Raremeteorites" <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>
> >> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 12:04 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Not a law. Thank you.
> >>>
> >>> -Michael in so. Cal.
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 12:06 PM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> >>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Exact wording from BLM website:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Those interested should contact the appropriate BLM office to learn
> >>>> details
> >>>> for their area of interest.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Can meteorites casually collected from public lands be bartered or
> >>>> sold?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Casual collection of meteorites from public lands is only for an
> >>>> individual's personal use. Sale or barter is considered commercial use.
> >>>> A
> >>>> permit must be issued for commercial activities and fees will be
> >>>> collected,
> >>>> including a purchase price based on a unit price or the percentage of
> >>>> fair
> >>>> market value, and a reclamation fee, if required.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mulgrew"
> >>>> <mikestang at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "Raremeteorites" <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>
> >>>> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 11:45 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Adam,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please cite me (and the rest of the list) the law by order and
> >>>>> section. "I saw it in a book" doesn't mean jack or shit to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Michael in so. Cal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> >>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A federal law is on the books about meteorites found on public land
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>> not
> >>>>>> to used for commercial purposes. A BLM agent working the Pahrump,
> >>>>>> Nevada
> >>>>>> area showed us this law in a book he pulled from his truck in the
> >>>>>> field
> >>>>>> after Guido Diero asked to see the laws governing meteorites. This
> >>>>>> is
> >>>>>> after
> >>>>>> the agent questioned our team members individually to try and catch
> >>>>>> us
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> leading questions like "how much are they worth?, how many have you
> >>>>>> sold?"
> >>>>>> and so on. Our team individually answered appropriately that they
> >>>>>> have
> >>>>>> no
> >>>>>> commercial value whatsoever since they cannot be sold and that the
> >>>>>> real
> >>>>>> value is scientific.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Future generations may remember our generation as the one that
> >>>>>> screwed
> >>>>>> everything up by publicly placing a monetary value on meteorites and
> >>>>>> attracting the attention of unelected federal and state lawmakers.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>>>> Great Late Richard Norton warned this would happen decades ago.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Adam
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Mulgrew"
> >>>>>> <mikestang at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> To: "Raremeteorites" <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>
> >>>>>> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:55 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs.
> >>>>>> U.S.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Except that there are no laws concerning meteorites and the infamous
> >>>>>> "BLM order" expired Sep. 30, 2013.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Like Larry wrote previously, the permit and the process was a joke -
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> series of hoops to be jumped through and when I got to the last hoop
> >>>>>> they kept moving it further away. I don't think they expected anyone
> >>>>>> to even make it as far as I did.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> We don't need to worry about the first American Lunar, it will 100%
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> found on private property.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Michael in so. Cal.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> >>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree with what you said about the laws not being enforced but
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>> still on the books and most likely will never come off. I have not
> >>>>>>> been
> >>>>>>> hassled recently and the last time was in the same period as
> >>>>>>> Met-Men.
> >>>>>>> Apparently the BLM thought meteorites were lying around like Easter
> >>>>>>> eggs
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> people were becoming rich from them so they needed more laws to
> >>>>>>> protect
> >>>>>>> people from making any form of profit. There is also no statue of
> >>>>>>> limitations on federal laws so when somebody finds that North
> >>>>>>> American
> >>>>>>> Lunar, they can go back in time to bolster their case.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Atkins"
> >>>>>>> <thetoprok at aol.com>
> >>>>>>> To: <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>;
> >>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:22 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs.
> >>>>>>> U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Adam,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What I said is true. Unenforced laws are meaningless. A warning or
> >>>>>>> whatever. really doesn't add up to anything of substance, and
> >>>>>>> without
> >>>>>>> actual
> >>>>>>> charges or at least a ticket, it's just words.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm guessing, only guessing, the incidents you mentioned happened
> >>>>>>> during,
> >>>>>>> or just after the peak of the" Met Men" series, when the BLM was on
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> mission to keep us from making all that 'easy money'. I'd bet those
> >>>>>>> same
> >>>>>>> officers watching eBay have tired of the activity and moved on to
> >>>>>>> bigger
> >>>>>>> fish long ago. Not much to get uptight about on eBay regarding
> >>>>>>> American
> >>>>>>> meteorites "poached" from state or federal land. It wouldn't take
> >>>>>>> long
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> them to figure out that monitoring eBay is a nonstarter, not enough
> >>>>>>> money to
> >>>>>>> merit the effort. The crater is the exception but that's a whole
> >>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>> topic.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I spend a lot of time in the field, thousands of hours, and I have
> >>>>>>> hard
> >>>>>>> core meteorite hunting buddies pounding the ground for thousands of
> >>>>>>> hours
> >>>>>>> per year without incident. Every single officer I've come into
> >>>>>>> contact
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> was aware of what I was doing and never once have I had an issue.
> >>>>>>> Some
> >>>>>>> day
> >>>>>>> if we ever get together we can share some stories.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As far as artifacts and fossils go you are correct, but only to a
> >>>>>>> point.
> >>>>>>> You can surface collect in most areas as far as I know. I can pick
> >>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>> fossils all day long, no one cares until I find 'Sue'. The same will
> >>>>>>> hold
> >>>>>>> true for meteorites, no one is gonna care until I recover the first
> >>>>>>> North
> >>>>>>> American Lunar.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The heat has cooled off. Relax,, Smile and go find some rocks bro.
> >>>>>>> : )
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>> Larry Atkins
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IMCA # 1941
> >>>>>>> Ebay alienrockfarm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> >>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2016 7:02 pm
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs.
> >>>>>>> U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I wish what you said was true. Our entire group was hassled around
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Pahrump area in Nevada and twice in California. Eight of our team
> >>>>>>> members
> >>>>>>> were threatened (warned) and I know others on the List who have been
> >>>>>>> hassled
> >>>>>>> as well. Two agents based out Barstow went as far as saying they
> >>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>> is being sold on eBay. We were told that some public land is
> >>>>>>> designated
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>> heritage or areas of areas of critical concern which are completely
> >>>>>>> off
> >>>>>>> limits while metal detectors cannot be used in other areas. I
> >>>>>>> cannot
> >>>>>>> find
> >>>>>>> any source which lists these areas so an agent can determine this in
> >>>>>>> field
> >>>>>>> so be careful. Just ask artifact and fossils hunters what happened
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>> their once-fine avocation including the fellow who found "Sue" the
> >>>>>>> dinosaur.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Atkins"
> >>>>>>> <thetoprok at aol.com>
> >>>>>>> To: <raremeteorites at centurylink.net>;
> >>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 4:38 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs.
> >>>>>>> U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Adam, All,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This may be true but it is very rarely if ever enforced, rendering
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> laws
> >>>>>>> meaningless. BLM got all excited a couple years ago but it came to
> >>>>>>> nothing,
> >>>>>>> ask Michael Mulgrew how his application went. It's a joke. The
> >>>>>>> people
> >>>>>>> enforcing the laws of our wild lands have better things to do than
> >>>>>>> hassle
> >>>>>>> rock hounds. In my sixteen years of hunting and occasional selling
> >>>>>>> I've
> >>>>>>> never heard of, or experienced trouble. In fact, I've encountered
> >>>>>>> law
> >>>>>>> enforcement of all types while in the field, told them exactly what
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> doing, talked money and everything, and all they say is "Good luck!
> >>>>>>> Have
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> great day!"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sell your rocks if you want, business as usual.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>> Larry Atkins
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> IMCA # 1941
> >>>>>>> Ebay alienrockfarm
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list
> >>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2016 3:38 pm
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs.
> >>>>>>> U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I agree with everything you stated with the exception of response 2
> >>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>> you state private citizens can profit from meteorite finds here in
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> United States. It is against federal and most state laws to use
> >>>>>>> meteorites
> >>>>>>> found on public land for commercial purposes meaning that the finder
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> allowed to sell anything they find. Private citizen are prohibited
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>> making a profit without a permit which will never be issued.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 2) If private citizens were prohibited from profiting from the
> >>>>>>> recovery
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> meteorites,
> >>>>>>> would you expect a negative impact on the quantity of recovered
> >>>>>>> material
> >>>>>>> from a
> >>>>>>> new fall? I think this is undeniable, and therefore it certainly
> >>>>>>> follows
> >>>>>>> that the total
> >>>>>>> mass deposited with accredited institutions would suffer. And it's
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> quantity, it's the quality. A meteorite recovered within 24 hours of
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> fall
> >>>>>>> is obviously
> >>>>>>> more scientifically valuable than one recovered a month later, when
> >>>>>>> terrestrial
> >>>>>>> weathering has altered some rare minerals, and short-lived
> >>>>>>> radioisotopes
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> decayed below the threshold of detectability.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matson, Rob D. via
> >>>>>>> Meteorite-list"
> >>>>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 12:12 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Ian,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since you brought up the Creston fall, presumably as a comparison
> >>>>>>> example
> >>>>>>> against
> >>>>>>> current Australian state policies, I feel some counter-commentary is
> >>>>>>> appropriate.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Creston is a example of where things went a bit pair shaped in my
> >>>>>>>> mind
> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> science.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In my opinion, Creston was really no stranger than Sutter's Mill,
> >>>>>>> Novato,
> >>>>>>> Battle Mountain,
> >>>>>>> Mifflin or Ash Creek. Science has been well served by all of these
> >>>>>>> falls.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> USA had a private network of cameras setup that captured the
> >>>>>>>> fireball,
> >>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>> private individual
> >>>>>>>> and some others extracted that meteorite, the first piece(s) was
> >>>>>>>> then
> >>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>> sold. Finally it
> >>>>>>>> was sold for a ridiculous price. Not illegal or immoral......just
> >>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>> ideal
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think what you are getting at is that only a small fraction of
> >>>>>>> each
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> these falls made
> >>>>>>> it into the hands of researchers. There are a couple points to
> >>>>>>> consider:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (1) How much material do researchers really need to extract the
> >>>>>>> majority
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> pertinent
> >>>>>>> scientific data from a fall? Sure, if you had infinite time you'd
> >>>>>>> love
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> have all of it since
> >>>>>>> the individual meteorites from a fall are not necessarily
> >>>>>>> homogenous.
> >>>>>>> (Case
> >>>>>>> in point:
> >>>>>>> Almahata Sitta). But balanced against this is the question of how
> >>>>>>> much
> >>>>>>> more
> >>>>>>> you're
> >>>>>>> going to learn by analyzing all of the stones from an L6 fall.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (2) If private citizens were prohibited from profiting from the
> >>>>>>> recovery
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> meteorites,
> >>>>>>> would you expect a negative impact on the quantity of recovered
> >>>>>>> material
> >>>>>>> from a
> >>>>>>> new fall? I think this is undeniable, and therefore it certainly
> >>>>>>> follows
> >>>>>>> that the total
> >>>>>>> mass deposited with accredited institutions would suffer. And it's
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> quantity, it's the quality. A meteorite recovered within 24 hours of
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> fall
> >>>>>>> is obviously
> >>>>>>> more scientifically valuable than one recovered a month later, when
> >>>>>>> terrestrial
> >>>>>>> weathering has altered some rare minerals, and short-lived
> >>>>>>> radioisotopes
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> decayed below the threshold of detectability.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> (3) Successful meteorite recovery requires a significant skill set
> >>>>>>> AND
> >>>>>>> considerable
> >>>>>>> expenditures of time and money. In the U.S., I expect that more than
> >>>>>>> 95%
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> annual resources made available through government grants to recover
> >>>>>>> meteorites
> >>>>>>> goes to ANSMET. I've spent thousands of unpaid hours on the analysis
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> nearly
> >>>>>>> all U.S. falls that have occurred in the last 15 years, as well as a
> >>>>>>> number
> >>>>>>> of falls
> >>>>>>> outside America, and have devoted a not insignificant amount of time
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> money
> >>>>>>> traveling to many of these places to recover meteorites. On each of
> >>>>>>> these
> >>>>>>> expeditions I tend to encounter the same couple dozen of dedicated
> >>>>>>> individuals --
> >>>>>>> names that would all be familiar to anyone on the Meteorite List. On
> >>>>>>> occasion I have
> >>>>>>> seen other scientists "in the field," but I suspect in most cases it
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>> own dime and not in an official paid capacity. Meteoriticists are
> >>>>>>> paid
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> analyze
> >>>>>>> meteorites, not run around the country recovering them.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Now in Australia, we do have an likely issue of finds being hidden
> >>>>>>>> (
> >>>>>>>> old
> >>>>>>>> falls and
> >>>>>>>> cold finds) due to our state laws. However this material will just
> >>>>>>>> add
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> the 50,000
> >>>>>>>> stones we need to know more about. Where these laws are a benefit
> >>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>> our DFN etc detects a fall, scientists (not private hunters looking
> >>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>> profit or cost
> >>>>>>>> recovery) will go out grab the stone and bring it back!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Perhaps in Australia this happens. I have not seen evidence that
> >>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> case
> >>>>>>> in the U.S. Researchers have access to the same information that I
> >>>>>>> do:
> >>>>>>> Doppler
> >>>>>>> radar, seismic networks, all-sky cameras, internet posts, the AMS
> >>>>>>> website
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> a dozen other resources. Nothing other than time and funding is
> >>>>>>> stopping
> >>>>>>> them
> >>>>>>> from competing with private citizens.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We will know where it came from, where it landed, who found it,
> >>>>>>>> what
> >>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> where it will stay exactly. With much more than just a
> >>>>>>>> classification
> >>>>>>>> but,
> >>>>>>>> rare orbit
> >>>>>>>> data - which is contributing greatly to mapping our solar system
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> more!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Well, we got all of that on both Sutter's Mill and Creston, in spite
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> problems
> >>>>>>> of private land ownership and considerably harder searching
> >>>>>>> conditions
> >>>>>>> than
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> almost ideal surfaces of the Australian outback. So both systems can
> >>>>>>> work.
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> just
> >>>>>>> think the current U.S. laws favor a higher success rate than in
> >>>>>>> Australia
> >>>>>>> because
> >>>>>>> they (at least currently) provide enough incentive to boost the
> >>>>>>> people-hours
> >>>>>>> that get devoted to each fall.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Best wishes,
> >>>>>>> Rob
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>> and
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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