[meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.

Mon Jan 18 19:38:51 EST 2016

Hi Adam, All,

This may be true but it is very rarely if ever enforced, rendering the laws meaningless. BLM got all excited a couple years ago but it came to nothing, ask Michael Mulgrew how his application went. It's a joke. The people enforcing the laws of our wild lands have better things to do than hassle rock hounds. In my sixteen years of hunting and occasional selling I've never heard of, or experienced trouble. In fact, I've encountered law enforcement of all types while in the field, told them exactly what I was doing, talked money and everything, and all they say is "Good luck! Have a great day!"

Sell your rocks if you want, business as usual.

Sincerely,
Larry Atkins

IMCA # 1941
Ebay alienrockfarm

-----Original Message-----
From: Raremeteorites via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Jan 18, 2016 3:38 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.

I agree with everything you stated with the exception of response 2 where 
you state private citizens can profit from meteorite finds here in the 
United States.  It is against federal and most state laws to use meteorites 
found on public land for commercial purposes meaning that the finder is not 
allowed to sell anything they find.  Private citizen are prohibited from 
making a profit without a permit which will never be issued.

2) If private citizens were prohibited from profiting from the recovery of 
meteorites,
would you expect a negative impact on the quantity of recovered material 
from a
new fall? I think this is undeniable, and therefore it certainly follows 
that the total
mass deposited with accredited institutions would suffer. And it's not just 
the
quantity, it's the quality. A meteorite recovered within 24 hours of a fall 
is obviously
more scientifically valuable than one recovered a month later, when 
terrestrial
weathering has altered some rare minerals, and short-lived radioisotopes 
have
decayed below the threshold of detectability.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 12:12 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Case study: Lake Eyre meteorite vs. U.S.

Hi Ian,

Since you brought up the Creston fall, presumably as a comparison example 
against
current Australian state policies, I feel some counter-commentary is 
appropriate.

> Creston is a example of where things went a bit pair shaped in my mind for 
> science.

In my opinion, Creston was really no stranger than Sutter's Mill, Novato, 
Battle Mountain,
Mifflin or Ash Creek. Science has been well served by all of these falls.

> USA had a private network of cameras setup that captured the fireball, a 
> private individual
> and some others extracted that meteorite, the first piece(s) was then on 
> sold. Finally it
> was sold for a ridiculous price. Not illegal or immoral......just not 
> ideal

I think what you are getting at is that only a small fraction of each of 
these falls made
it into the hands of researchers. There are a couple points to consider:

(1) How much material do researchers really need to extract the majority of 
pertinent
scientific data from a fall? Sure, if you had infinite time you'd love to 
have all of it since
the individual meteorites from a fall are not necessarily homogenous. (Case 
in point:
Almahata Sitta). But balanced against this is the question of how much more 
you're
going to learn by analyzing all of the stones from an L6 fall.

(2) If private citizens were prohibited from profiting from the recovery of 
meteorites,
would you expect a negative impact on the quantity of recovered material 
from a
new fall? I think this is undeniable, and therefore it certainly follows 
that the total
mass deposited with accredited institutions would suffer. And it's not just 
the
quantity, it's the quality. A meteorite recovered within 24 hours of a fall 
is obviously
more scientifically valuable than one recovered a month later, when 
terrestrial
weathering has altered some rare minerals, and short-lived radioisotopes 
have
decayed below the threshold of detectability.

(3) Successful meteorite recovery requires a significant skill set AND 
considerable
expenditures of time and money. In the U.S., I expect that more than 95% of 
the
annual resources made available through government grants to recover 
meteorites
goes to ANSMET. I've spent thousands of unpaid hours on the analysis of 
nearly
all U.S. falls that have occurred in the last 15 years, as well as a number 
of falls
outside America, and have devoted a not insignificant amount of time and 
money
traveling to many of these places to recover meteorites. On each of these
expeditions I tend to encounter the same couple dozen of dedicated 
individuals --
names that would all be familiar to anyone on the Meteorite List. On 
occasion I have
seen other scientists "in the field," but I suspect in most cases it was on 
their
own dime and not in an official paid capacity. Meteoriticists are paid to 
analyze
meteorites, not run around the country recovering them.

> Now in Australia, we do have an likely issue of finds being hidden ( old 
> falls and
> cold finds) due to our state laws. However this material will just add to 
> the 50,000
> stones we need to know more about. Where these laws are a benefit is that 
> when
> our DFN etc detects a fall, scientists (not private hunters looking for 
> profit or cost
> recovery) will go out grab the stone and bring it back!

Perhaps in Australia this happens. I have not seen evidence that this is the 
case
in the U.S.  Researchers have access to the same information that I do: 
Doppler
radar, seismic networks, all-sky cameras, internet posts, the AMS website 
and
a dozen other resources. Nothing other than time and funding is stopping 
them
from competing with private citizens.

> We will know where it came from, where it landed, who found it, what it is 
> and
> where it will stay exactly. With much more than just a classification but, 
> rare orbit
> data - which is contributing greatly to mapping our solar system and more!

Well, we got all of that on both Sutter's Mill and Creston, in spite of the 
problems
of private land ownership and considerably harder searching conditions than 
the
almost ideal surfaces of the Australian outback. So both systems can work. I 
just
think the current U.S. laws favor a higher success rate than in Australia 
because
they (at least currently) provide enough incentive to boost the people-hours
that get devoted to each fall.

Best wishes,
Rob

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