[meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Sat Jan 16 12:11:53 EST 2016

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From: Ann Cain
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 12:06 PM
To: MEM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Elton,

Please read the research article below. Here I posted a link to it again:

See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf

I said, " It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can launch off the surface solid."

Note paraphrasing the article, that it is possible for impact craters on Mars up to approx. 50.0km in diameter to have the kinetic energy from an impactor to eject Mars material up to about 22.0m in diameter. Re-read that. That is 22.0 meters in diameter!

These Mars meteoroids then can orbit the Sun for perhaps millions of years crossing Earth's orbital path and then fall into Earth's gravity well, there upon hitting the top of Earth's  atmosphere incandescencing  becoming a meteor, fragmenting, shattering, forming fusion crust, regmaglypts, orientating, flow drip-lines, fusion crust melt accumulate etc. etc. etc. (all the tell-tale signs of meteorites) falling and raining to the surface of the Earth. I know for a fact that this can happen. It happened at least once. Lol. I know because I found a Mars meteorite discovery site. It's my best hypothesis that with this Mars discovery meteorite find site that its been sitting on the surface of the Earth for about 13,000 years or less, from environmental clues, which I will not discuss. However, terrestrial age date tests need to been done of course. I bet I'm darn close to guessing the terrestrial age. Over the last 4.54B years this has probably happened many times from Mars to Earth (and some from Earth to Mars) as Earth continues to accrete but today at a much slower rate of mass influx.

The well known space artist, Donald E. Davis working for NASA at the time got it right ... note the heterogeneous igneous rock mass ejected from Mars falling to Earth. These masses can be big! He nailed it.

http://gfoundit-mars.com/MarsImpactEjection2.jpg

The questions you ask I answer in my evidence articles. I'm not sharing all of the data from ICP-MS whole rock oxide and trace mineral analysis except for what values I have shared already. There are many more discoveries with this data to make. Science believe it or not is competitive just like sports. I get that and understand that. The analysis was done by a very well known Mining/Scientific research lab in North America that is used by many university Geology departments. They have abundant meteorite lab analysis experience. They do excellent work and they know how to keep the data from any discovery secret and proprietary as they should. They do excellent professional work, they are ethical,  and they don't play games. With this data I know how to do many of the geochemistry analysis measurements. They are all repeatable.

I'm more than willing to share all this data with a University meteorite analysis lab that wants to re-confirm that they are indeed meteorites, the petrology rock type, and the Parent Body of origin. If they are willing to do honest pure science research and no games, that they consider and agree that I have a right to keep the discovery site secret, that this discovery is my intellectual property, until negotiations and contracts are agreed upon and signed, then we can work together.

The scientific world is going to get the material, and not just some of it, most of it. The monetary reward goes to The People.

Glyn

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From: MEM <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 3:22 AM
To: Ann Cain; Met-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Hello Glyn-- Giving your claim all advantages with a cursory review: Using your 0.22 cubic meter figure and putting in the highest measured martian density of 3.48 gr per cc,   I get 76kg launch weight and 38 Kg ( assuming 50% ablation by weight) landing under perfect conditions. My max weight from the data i did have in my head,  28-32kg was not far off but not to the order of magnitude difference-- it still does not add up to 800lbs.    The total weight is immaterial in one sense as to date there have been no "meteorite showers" of martian material.  The chaos of an impact, in my mind, would not produce a coherent stream of meteoroids which would remain together for the several hundred thousand up to millions orbits it takes for martian material to arrive on earth.  Paired finds are consistent with atmospheric breakup supporting a single original mass.

I saw your extensive mineralogy and you may in fact have a meteorite-- or impactiite but, I did not see where the mineral composition nor noble gases plotted amongst plots of the entire range of meteorites.  I don't know who the keeper of data is for those plots but you could still plot yours on the master graph.  (I may have lots of stray data in my head but that isn't one of them).

I think that the way you seem to misdirect technical answers and the way what you do claim what you do, is buried amongst irrelevant comparisons that lend skepticism to your report thus far.  May I say that much of your response is filled with irrelevant comparisons and non sequitur conclusions.  Apollo rocks have nothing to do with validating your claims.

If I unserstand, you did some of the mineralogy and sent some off for analysis, but you won't name or revel any professional meteorist nor geo-chemist nor anyone else accredited who has either reviewed your work or through their own study.  Yes or no? If so, what prevents you from releasing it?  What is the shock stage if you know it?

Elton

________________________________
From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
To: Met-List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Met List,

I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to stop. I will never respond in kind.

Do you all not know the Met List policies?

General List Policies (i.e. The Rules)

    1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites.
    2. Be courteous and professional at all times.
    3. No Personal Attacks.

...

I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to work with.

First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off the surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of the fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from Mars.

See pg.337

Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity
http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf

You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is to treat others as you would like to be treated. Geologist Joe De Kehoe gets the whole story very right. I would recommend buying his book, The Silence of the Sun. Unfair and unjust laws are simply no law at all. It's lawlessness. There is a higher law of fairness and justice. You can not ignore the original discoverer. This World Record Mars Discovery will benefit the People. It's the People's National treasure. The People are to benefit.  I've said that all along and will continue to do so. I'm doing the right thing.

I know a greater law ...

Psalm 24:1 NLT
"A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world and all its people belong to him."

Geologist Joe De Kehoe writes the entire story:...
Chapter One, The Old Woman Meteorite, The story and the controversy that resulted from the discovery and removal of the second largest meteorite ever found in the U.S.
http://gfoundit-mars.com/owm3word.docx

Glyn Howard

________________________________________
From: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:59 AM
To: Gmail; Ann Cain; Met-List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

Mendy and All,

I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 MetSoc

Message-----
>From: Gmail via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM
>To: Ann Cain <Gfndit at hotmail.com>, Met-List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
>
>There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided legitimacy to your story and your rocks.
>
>You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large.
>
>If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by any number of factors such as but not limited to supply.
>
>Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory speech) and move on.
>
>Respectfully,
>
>Mendy Ouzillou
>
>On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
>
>
>Meteorite List,
>
>
>Recall:
>Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use the same email account:
>
>Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
>gfndit(at)hotmail.com
>
>
>
>This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of the Meteorite List.
>
>I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable (empirical).
>
>I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.
>
>
>The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this discovery:
>
>GSA and GSB
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html
>
>
>The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:
>
>http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html
>
>
>I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite specimens by this Passover.
>
>
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>I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how.
>
>The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia  have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against this wall, this unethical gate-ke
e
> ping because they didn't have the prerequisite  skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of discovery for everyone.
>
>The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep saying it ...
>
>It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect discoveries and intellectual property.
>
>
>"Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., as anyone."
>-- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, January-February 2005), p.73
>http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming
>
>
>As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you want something done right you have to  do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are my background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists and technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very helpful, and then they did their assigned jobs very professionally and willingly. One day when the story can be told completely in detail I will certainly call out personally all those who helped me. The others who didn't, I will anonymously thank for motivating me to learn meteoritics  and to learn to do it on my own. I have enjoyed the scientific process immensely. Much more to come. And I ca
n
>  prove what I know.
>
>Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give away the scientific analysis and identification process to another? Why not learn how to do it for yourself so that your knowledge of the science of meteoritics increases? Why give away that joy of this discovery process? Sure I understand that many can't do it or perhaps they aren't interested in the whole scientific process, but I am. Why not go after the full credit for the full discovery -- from the field, to the lab, all the way to the publication? Sure there are tests I cannot do, others will do these tests afterwards. However, it doesn't change the fact that I made this WR meteorite field discovery, and in the lab I proved they are meteorites, proved the petrology, and then proved the Parent Body of origin for this achondrite meteorite find. The PB is Mars. I was able to prove all of this first. Others will re-confirm second. And others will go much further thereafter. There is an incredible amount of pur
e
>  science about Mars to learn from this full discovery. I would like to be intimately involved in that with my full discovery. I'm sure this US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery will make many careers for many scientists for a long time to come.  NASA Houston Space Command will have to add another adjacent building to Building 31, or at least expand, just to store the new Mars material. I have no doubt about that.
>
>If a tree falls in the forest and no-one is there to hear it or witness the event ... guess what it still fell! The event still happened and made a sound. Likewise the discovery of and the science of meteorites (meteoritics) still takes place outside of the formal controlling walls of The Meteoritical Society and official publication in The Bulletin. There will be time for that down the road.
>
>When a World Record discovery occurs on this level, you do not give the keys away to the discovery. I have a right to guard my discovery and its full value to help the greatest number of people. It is possible to make incredible discoveries, do incredible and exciting science, and achieve social justice for many many people all at the same time. It's the right thing to do. I intend to do just that. There is a reason this discovery was given to me to make. Tikkun olam. Baruch HaShem.
>
>
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>Glyn Howard
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>______________________________________________
>
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