[meteorite-list] ureilite for sale

[Norbert & Heike Kammel]

Well said, Mike!

 From my point of view there is nothing that should/could be added to 
your comment.

BTW: I do respect Abdelfattah as beeing a honest and trustworthy person.

Best regards from Down-Under,

Norbert Kammel
IMCA # 3420
www.rocksonfire.com

On 14/07/2013 12:35 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Well said Graham.  I feel the same way.  I think it's pretty obvious
> when viewing offers from overseas wholesalers and hunters, which ones
> are legit.  Abdelfattah is known to many members on this List, and so
> are many other Moroccan dealers and wholesalers.  In fact, the legit
> Moroccan wholesalers have probably handled many more meteorites and
> meteorwrongs than most Western collectors or dealers.  A experienced
> eye can spot features that may hint at what the petrologic type is.  I
> think almost anyone can look at a highly-equilibrated chondrite and
> tell that it's a type 5, L or H.  Plentiful chondrules showing through
> the matrix or outer surface hints at a type 3.  Glossy, slick crust -
> probably an achondrite.
>
> How many times has a collector or dealer bought a stone at an
> unclassified chondrite price, only to win the "Moroccan Lottery" and
> score a planetary or other rare type.  It's part of the game and the
> market, although it happens less frequently now because the hunters
> and wholesalers are more savvy now and can spot promising meteorites
> that may be a rare type.
>
> Self-pairing is rampant in the meteorite world.  How much of the TONS
> of NWA 869 on the market has been classified?  How about those little
> Nantan and Campo "crystals"?  Are those analyzed by a lab?  I could
> point out a respected dealer right now who is self-pairing everything
> from OC's to planetaries.  I won't do it, because he's one of the most
> reliable and nicest dealers around.  And, I respect his judgement.
> Apparently there is no problem with it, because nobody ever brings it
> up and he's a long-time member of the IMCA.
>
> The enforcement of the unspoken rule against self-pairing is arbitrary
> and mean-spirited at times.  If we are going to drag Abdelfattah
> across the fire for offering a self-paired ureilite, then open the
> floodgates and crucify everyone who is doing it.  Half of the dealers
> out there have self-paired at one time or another - maybe more than
> that.  I don't endorse that and I do not agree with that practice, but
> it's a reality of the market and we turn a blind eye to some dealers
> for doing it while we call out others in public.  It's not
> even-handed.
>
> Blaine Reed is now enduring a crapstorm of revenge because he stood up
> for the integrity of the market - frankly, that is something the IMCA
> could have done.  It shouldn't have been up to Blaine to go out on his
> own dime and take up the cause of authenticity.  Blaine now has an
> enemy for life because of his stand against self-pairing or
> self-classifications.  Steve Curry got himself convicted of a criminal
> charge for doing something that is not different than what many List
> members do on a regular basis - they are just given a pass because
> they are well-known to most collectors and the material they are
> self-pairing is obvious unimportant meteorites like Campo and NWA 869.
>
> All of this discussion and insults could have been avoided if either :
> Abdelfattah had offered his stone as a "possible ureilite" or
> "possible achondrite", but also made it clear that the stone is still
> officially unclassified.  Perhaps it was a language barrier at work
> here.  Or, if we had treated his offer like the hundreds or thousands
> of others that are similar - here is my suspected meteorite, here are
> some photos of it, and contact me if you want to buy it.  Nothing to
> get bent out of shape about.
>
> If Abdelfattah stands behind his material, then there is no issue.  If
> he sells something as a ureilite, and it turns out to be something
> else, then a good dealer will stand behind that deal and offer to buy
> back the stone or send a refund.  That is the nature of the business.
> There is no need to insult the man for it.
>
> I have seen some Moroccans on Facebook offering some obvious
> meteorwrongs for sale as meteorites and they are quite pushy about it
> sometimes.  Abdelfattah is not one of those dealers.  A measure of
> good judgement and experience with the market comes into play here.
> Newbies and people who haven't done their homework shouldn't be
> purchasing specimens unseen from overseas sources.  Period.
>
> Best regards and الصيد سعيد,
>
> MikeG
>