[meteorite-list] Falls and finds

[Michael Blood]

Hi Mike and Michael,
        The only time I could see this being used reasonably is under
Circumstances where there is a fall that is not seen with the eye
But is noted within 24hrs.
        We have seen this on more than one occasion - such as a
Family goes to bed and may or may not hear a crash but in the
Morning a meteorite is found to have smashed the car in the
Garage, coming through the roof (Warden) or the like.
        I could see that referred to as "an unobserved fall" - but
I am confident it is recorded as a "fall." I am sure there are many,
Many others where a meteorite is found within 24 hrs of the
Fall so the date of the fall is known, though the fall was technically
"unobserved" - but I see no reason to become so specific other than
In notations of the details - and most certainly not as a separate
"classification," as what has already been noted: all "finds" were
"unobserved falls" if you use the term loosely.
        Michael

On 1/7/13 9:15 AM, "Michael Farmer" <mike at meteoriteguy.com> wrote:

> Why don't we just leave things that work as they are? In more than 18 years of
> selling meteorites, I have never heard of finds morphing into "unobserved
> falls". Poor marketing gimmick to try and remake finds into something more
> interesting (not sure who buys into such scams).
> If there is some anecdotal evidence that a meteorite may be a fall it is
> usually noted in the writeup.
> Any label I get describing a meteorite as an "unobserved fall" will be
> promptly thrown where it belongs, in the trash heap of schemes and scams:)
> By the way, has the Alpha-site been disclosed yet, or is that still a
> "secret"?
> 
> Michael Farmer
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Jan 6, 2013, at 10:52 PM, Michael Mulgrew <mikestang at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Maybe we need to try a different language.  How about the universal
>> language of mathematics?
>> 
>> [Observed fall: No] != [unobserved fall]
>> 
>> or
>> 
>> IF(observed fall, fall, find)
>> 
>> 
>> Nip this in the bud before someone makes up a term for an unobserved
>> meteor...
>> 
>> 
>> -Michael in so. Cal.
>> 
>> On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Michael Farmer <mike at meteoriteguy.com> wrote:
>>> Noit makes perfect sense actually, is it a fall or a find. I spoke to Garvie
>>> yesterday, who made very clear there are only two terms, fall or find.
>>> You would make a great politician, mincing words until no logic is left to
>>> find.
>>> An old meteorite found in a field was found, thus a find.
>>> been that way for centuries, no need to change it now.
>>> 
>>> Michael Farmer
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Jan 5, 2013, at 9:30 AM, <valparint at aol.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mike,
>>>> 
>>>> The Meteoritical Bulletin Database uses the following terminology:
>>>> 
>>>>   Observed fall: No
>>>> 
>>>> Does that disturb you?
>>>> 
>>>> Paul Swartz
>>>> 
>>>>> I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds
>>>>> of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years
>>>>> ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss
>>>>> unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative.
>>>>> Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as
>>>>> all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted
>>>>> terminology?
>>>>> My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and
>>>>> science to back it up.
>>>>> I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite
>>>>> ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point.
>>>>> Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we
>>>>> can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have
>>>>> possibly fallen:).
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