[meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor

[Rob Matson]

Hi Bjorn,

Okay, let's try this from a solar perspective since it seems you don't like
the geocentric perspective. 2012 DA14 is an Amor that has its aphelion
at just under 1 a.u., and its perihelion at about 0.83 a.u. At the time of
its encounter with earth, it's longitude of ascending node was almost
exactly at the earth's solar longitude.  Because their velocities around
the sun are very close to one another, nearly all of the relative velocity
between the two of them is in a direction perpendicular to earth's
orbital plane, owing to 2012 DA14's 11.6-degree inclination. It's like
two jets flying in the same direction at about the same speed, but
one of them is in level flight, and the other is rapidly gaining altitude
(from below the other jet).

So let's pretend that instead of 2012 DA14 being alone, it has a bunch
of companions spread out ahead of it in orbit, behind it, and perhaps
even at slightly different radial distances from the sun. They're still
all going at very nearly the same velocity around the sun, in very
nearly the same orbital plane. What I believe you are suggesting is
that perhaps there was an object leading 2012 DA14 by some number
of hours and that instead of crossing the earth's orbital plane on the
side opposite the sun (as 2012 DA14) did, it crossed on the sunrise
terminator side of the earth -- just ahead of the earth -- and that
the earth then caught up to it from behind (and of course
gravitationally pulled it in as well). So far so good. But here's the
problem:  that pesky 11.6 degree inclination. Just as with 2012 DA14's
relative velocity, your candidate object has nearly all of its relative
velocity in a direction fairly closely aligned with earth's pole. As
such, any resulting bolide in the northern hemisphere would have
to be moving quite close to a south-to-north trajectory, and we
know that the Russian bolide did not do this. That's why I keep
mentioning the 90-degree angle problem: how do you get your
meteoroid to do a big right turn and head away from the sun
so that it can have an east-to-west motion over Russia?

--Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bjorn Sorheim
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 5:53 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 2012 DA14 and the Russian meteor: a strong link

Hello List,
I can't see in any way how your statements can be true, and I wonder
how anyone can. I would assume NASA has way more educated
professionals in this than you. Why do they say: 'Preliminary information 
indicates ---
not related'? They would have been able to refute a strike for all areas of 
Russia according
to your reasoning.

When an asteroid having a shallow inclination of 10 deg to the ecliptical 
plane,
that is Earth's orbital plane, and a fragment originating from this, 
travelling parallell
to this, as I assume the meteorid/asteroid that came down near Chelyabinsk
did, it will easily hit ANY part of Earth provided it hits when that part 
of Earth is
facing towards it.
Giving a large number of objects in a swarm around/forwards/backwards of 
it, these
fragments from asteroid 2012DA14 will get to ground on all parts of the 
Earth as the Earth
rotates through the day and night, that should be obvious.

On a psychological note, I observe that none of you have countered any 
given sentence I
have written on this russian meteor.
You just manically keep reiterating that they are not related. I can only sea
anxiety behind this.

Sorry, Marco, but you are flatly wrong here. Your statement is absurd.
Only asteroids with very high inclination of 70-90 degree would behave the 
way you say here.
We are talking 10 degrees in this case, and your statements are ridiculous 
and shocking.
You seem to believe that the orbit of 2012DA14 is retrograde, which of 
course it is not.

So please, if you can prove me wrong on any sentence or statement I have 
written, do it.
But please, Marco, Rob and Chris do it also internally to the other members 
of your
internal group, and don't behave like a pack of wolves...

I hope also when someone are putting forwards a clearly wrong statement,
me or anyone else are allowed to denounce that statement from the person. I 
hope we can do so,
also with a degree of engagement and temperament. I say this also to the 
other readers of this
discussion, as the temperament here may surprise you. Right or wrong 
staements or
assumptions make a lot of difference in this case.

Bjørn Sørheim