[meteorite-list] New BLM regs: Tempest in a teacup?

[Jim Wooddell]

I don't know Gregg the question is did you ask for a television if you did that might be totally out of the question!

Jim Wooddell - Mobile

Greg Hupé <gmhupe at centurylink.net> wrote:

>I always love early morning hikes through the desert looking for my beloved 
>Beanie Babies, such a fulfilling hobby! I never attempt to capture them or 
>molest them in any way, photos only using a 600mm zoom lens as to not 
>interfere with their morning feeding activities. They are extremely rare out 
>of captivity so when ever I spot one in the wild it is most gratifying!!
>
>I believe I am going to change my career and hobby path in life. I have 
>thought about this over the last few weeks and decided that I will apply to 
>be a BLM officer and approach my new bosses about being the point officer in 
>charge of identifying suspect meteorites found by the casual hunter, 
>scientists and the rare professional desert hunter/dealer. Said 'meteorites' 
>would have to come to me in my cushy air conditioned office and it would be 
>at my sole discretion to decide if a particular rock is a meteorite or not. 
>As part of my negotiated pay working for the BLM, I would of course have 
>been authorized a FREE life-time casual/scientific/commercial permit in 
>order to take these bogus stones from 'the vacationist' and line my person 
>garden with them. On my days off I would go hunt for meteorites and maybe 
>'get lucky' every now and then. With my special new "Casual 
>Collector/Scientific/Commercial" badge, I could hunt to my hearts desire and 
>do with any finds as I wish. But remember, this is because I negotiated for 
>this shiny special badge as part of my monthly paycheck so it would be like 
>buying said permit(s) anyway!!
>
>Hope everyone has a fabulous day, and be sure to Rock On!! :)
>
>Best Regards,
>Greg
>
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: Jim Wooddell
>Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:29 AM
>To: Meteorite List
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New BLM regs: Tempest in a teacup?
>
>Hi Norm and all!
>
>Here is some clarification info and such....
>
>I do not know anyone who has gone through the permit process to obtain
>a permit the priviledge of hunting meteorites on BLM land.  Not sure
>it has ever been required or any have ever been issued.  I do not know
>a current dealer / hunter that has permits to hunt meteorites on BLM
>land.  Can you share some examples?
>
>
>I am not a lawyer and can not offer anything but my own opinion based
>on information I have gathered communicating with various BLM
>representatives, both local and national level.  I am not trying to
>share BS here, only sharing information.  These new rules do not
>affect me as an amateur Meteorite hunter.  They do effect me as an
>amateur researcher for science.
>
>I believe the BLM's new rules on meteorites do clarify much of what
>the meteorite hunting community knew.  The question on the use of
>metal detectors for example, was in question by many.  This issue is
>now clarified in favor of all hunters.  However, I want to point out
>that local policy for any specific area could be different based on
>the local Land Use Plan, which I think is the ultimate policy for a
>given area.
>
>They have defined meteorite hunters and operation into three users of the 
>land.
>
>The first type of user is the "casual" or hobby collector.  They are
>individuals or groups of individuals who enjoy getting out and using
>the land and find meteorites.  They can keep what they find but can
>not sell it.  There is no permit required for this.
>Note it does NOT clarifiy ownership for the casual collector.  The
>fact they say you can not sell it suggests a finder is NOT the owner.
>
>The second type of user is the researcher, scientist, or museum
>curator who is collecting for their research or exhibit in a museum or
>other educational institutions.  This DOES require a permit.  The
>permit will be issued, if approved, under the authority of the
>Antiquities Act.  The meteorite is still federal property, i.e., the
>government is responsible for the care of the specimen because it is
>required to be kept in perpetuity by the institution for the public's
>benefit and enjoyment.  It has the status of a national treasure, to
>be cared for with certain requirements to preserve the specimen.
>There are no fees for this type of permit because it is benefiting the
>public.
>
>
>The third type of user is a commercial collector or dealer. I called
>them “professionals.”   BLM calls them Commercial.  They are out to
>make a profit from what they collect from public lands.  As with other
>commercial commodities that the BLM is responsible for, e.g., sand and
>gravel, coal, oil and gas, solar energy, wind energy, etc., they are
>required by various laws to collect basically a “royalty” that gets
>returned to the general Treasury’s public funds. This type of activity
>requires a permit and must be evaluated for environmental impacts
>under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) and other various
>environmental laws. The processing of the permit and the environmental
>evaluations are part of the fees to process a permit.  In addition,
>there may be a fee associated with monitoring, if it is required.
>Professionals who collect for museums and charge museums a fee are
>still considered commercial collectors, and require a permit.
>
>The BLM is using 43 CFR 2920 in regards to reviewing a permit
>application, fees, fair market value, etc.  The CFR's are fairly
>clear.  A local office in Arizona estimates the the permit process can
>take up to 185 days, which is the current time it is taking.
>
>As per 34 CFR 2920.2-1(a), it is highly recommended that you discuss
>the proposal as soon as you can with the authorized officer in an
>area. The authorized officer would be the one to approve the permit
>based on 2920.2-1(b). There is a possibility that the AO would
>determine that this could be a minimum impact permit as per 2920.2-2,
>because recovery of the meteorite material is usually from the surface
>with very little impacts during surface collection.
>
>Two things are imperative..
>First, the local authorized officers need to be educated in the
>collection of meteorites and of critical importance, the need to
>recover fresh fallen meteorites as soon as possible.
>Second, based on conversations with BLM representatives, institutions
>such as those that study and curate meteorites can and should file
>permit applications that cover an entire state in a pro-active manor
>so that they or their volunteers can collect freshly fallen meteorites
>immediately after a fall.  Still, this is up to the authorized officer
>for the state.
>
>The bottom line is that no one has any rights to collect meteorites on
>federal lands for profit or for science without permission from the
>BLM in the form of a permit.  Science and dealer-hunters  are those
>affected the most.  It was made apparent the BLM knows who many of
>them are.  Time will tell how this works out.
>
>I am only sharing information here.  Most all of this can be
>referenced to communications with a BLM representative at a national
>level.
>
>Jim
>
>
>Jim Wooddell
>
>
>On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Norm Lehrman <nlehrman at nvbell.net> wrote:
>> Jim & all,
>>
>> Commercial users always had to have permits.  Permits always took their
>> time. This is not new  Rockhounders were always prohibited from commercial
>> endeavors.  This is not new.  Meteorite hunters were lumped in with 
>> rockhounders
>> until now. The only real change that I can see is the change in poundage
>> limits---a major change for sure, but how many of us have had years where 
>> the 10
>> pound limit would've been a problem?  It can happen, but quite rarely.  I 
>> have
>> recovered hundreds of meteorite (fragments) in Nevada, but nowhere near 10
>> pounds per year.  Probably the main point of all this is that we are now 
>> under
>> scrutiny and attracting explicit personalized regulation where before we 
>> were
>> pretty much under the radar.  However, the "new" explicit meteorite 
>> regulations
>> are mostly not new, but rather, a formal restatement of long-standing 
>> policies
>> governing rockhounding on BLM-managed lands.
>>
>> Norm
>>
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