[meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components

eric at meteoritesusa.com eric at meteoritesusa.com
Mon Mar 12 00:08:44 EDT 2012 

Good points Richard, Michael, (I will apologize in advance for the  
length of this post; I started writing a couldn't stop)

Divine Creation vs Natural Formation. That is the question. That is a  
VERY large part of why I love meteorites so much. Meteorites have  
allowed me a look into the universe and answer some very important  
personal, spiritual, and scientific questions as to the origins of  
Earth, the planets, and ourselves. Meteorites are keys to unlocking  
our past, the formation of Earth, the solar system, stars, galaxies,  
and ultimately the universe itself.

The problem with the divine creation (anthropomorphic creator)  
hypothesis is that it's an assumption of observance. In other words  
the watchmaker paradox. The universe exists, how did it come to be?  
Something must have "created" it. Right? Not necessarily. That my  
friends is an absolute assumption.

And the argument should stop right there, but it doesn't. Believers  
will argue that something can't come from nothing and non-believers  
will argue that everything came from what we perceive as nothing. (The  
Big Bang) Science and non-believers go one step further and say "We  
don't know what happened before the Big Bang." That is intellectual  
honesty and good science. And this might be offensive to some, and I'm  
sorry if offends, but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity  
started it, is pure speculation, because no one knows what happened  
before, in the beginning, and it creates the creator to explain the  
unexplained formation of the observable. Why can't the unexplained  
stop and start at "I don't know, lets find out." instead of "god did  
it."?

Evolution, Panspermia, Transpermia, Abiogenesis, Planetary Science,  
Astrobiology, Astronomy, Anthropology, Archeology, they all help  
explain the universe and world around us.

Meteorites specifically are absolutely a vital clue to unlocking the  
secrets of the universe because they (the asteroids and comets that  
make them) not only are they the very material that formed our planet,  
every single planet, planetesimal, asteroid, comet, meteoroid, and  
spec of dust floating around our star was once part of another star  
before, as are we. It's a cycle, a system, a circular system of  
formation and destruction, somewhere in between life formed.

Why create a creator to explain the unexplainable? Why not instead use  
science to determine origins rather than speculate on a divine  
supernatural beginning. Empirical evidenced fact outweighs speculative  
assumption every time. We are in fact part of nature, not separate  
from it. We need not transpose an anthropomorphic creatot to explain  
something we don't yet know.

Regardless of whether there is a divine creator, or not, no one can  
prove it empirically either way. (yet) That's what science is for. If  
there is, science will find out, if there is not, science will find  
out. Either way, the truth will only be the truth when we prove it  
with evidence, not speculative assumption of the observable.

Regards,
Eric





Quoting Richard Montgomery <rickmont at earthlink.net>:

> Hi Michael and List (a different Richard here!)
>
> Contrary to the often mis-conception that 'religion' and 'God' are
> interchangeable...and considering the 'dangerous' ground upon which a
> discussion of this sort may be inappropriate for the meteoritical
> discussion here....allow me this thought:
>
> A person of 'faith' may not rule out transpernmia in theory;  it simply
> expands the pie.  A 'religious' person tied tether-bound to a strick
> doctrine may reject such an 'outlandish' notion out-of-hand, as it
> disrupts the entire reality from which their foundation is built.
>
> In short, (in my small and insignificant yet human perspective), it
> should be rational to allow both transpermia and a perspective of God
> that trancends all current 'views' of even Christianity, allowing for
> all three to co-exist....just a thought....
>
> Richard Montgomery
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net>; "Meteorite List"
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make
> Life's Components
>
>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>>       As an Anthropologist I can assure you all religions have NOT
>> Viewed God as male - some were female and some were non-gender
>> Specific "spirit."
>>
>>       Garry, I agree with you - interesting topic, but I fear a good many
>> On the list would see it as non-meteorite related in spite of the fact
>> That transpermia (via meteorites) compels such a discussion about why
>> People "of faith" would reject transpermia out of hand. They damned
>> Near tortured Galileo to death for saying the world was not the center
>> Of the universe (and he lived the remainder of his life under house arrest).
>>
>>         Religious persecution of scientific recognition of inconvenient
>> facts has always been part of history and continues to this day - most
>> religions holding the view, "the way we see things IS the way things are"
>> while others overtly state that view AND feel the DUTY to kill anyone
>> when sees things differently - hence 9/11.
>>
>>       Weird, weird, weird & weirder.
>>
>>       Michael
>>
>>
>> On 3/11/12 2:23 PM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Micheal,
>>> That is an excellent point that has always baffled me and I could never
>>> understand the thinking
>>> of any religion in this world. All the different Gods worshiped world wide
>>> have always been considered a male.
>>> Which brings up the problem, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg."
>>> I think all these religions could be easier to swallow if their God was a
>>> female.
>>> That would answer the question, she "God" was a female carrying   
>>> the first egg
>>> that resulted
>>> in the birth of the universe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Lipke
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> A major element in the problem with most of those calling
>>>> Themselves Christians these days is that they
>>>> See God as an anthropomorphic individual. This makes it
>>>> Difficult to see the "glory" or creation in anything other
>>>> Than comic book images.
>>>>
>>>> They actually envision God as a big (male) human who
>>>> Literally, with His hands, shaped Adam out of mud.....
>>>> They cannot even see what a nearly perfect allegory that is
>>>> For evolution arising from a primeval "soup."
>>>>
>>>> Evidence of transpermia is growing - but don't confuse
>>>> Them with facts.
>>>>
>>>> Odd
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/10/12 5:58 AM, "Dick Lipke" <RICHARDLIPKE at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Years ago I got a lot of questionable looks concerning my sanity
>>>>> when I
>>>>> brought up
>>>>> the idea of meteorites being "the Johny Appleseed of of life on
>>>>> Earth" to
>>>>> members of my astronomy club.
>>>>> Needless to say it resulted in many,many comments of out rage.
>>>>> They reminded me of how it must have felt to be among the first
>>>>> to refute the idea that Earth was the center of the Universe.
>>>>> Lucky for me my kind of thinking came in 20th century, back then
>>>>> they still
>>>>> burnt
>>>>> people at the stake for being possessed by satin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard Lipke
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>> ScienceDaily, March 9, 2012,
>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309104845.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components
>>>>>> Klaus Schmidt, March 10, 2012
>>>>>> http://spacefellowship.com/news/art27926/meteorites-reveal-another-way-to-m
>>>>>> ak
>>>>>> e-life-s-components.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The paper is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Burton, A. S., J. E. Elsila, M. P. Callahan, M. G. Martin, D. P.
>>>>>> Glavin, N. M. Johnson, and J. P. Dworkin. A propensity
>>>>>> for n-w-amino acids in thermally altered Antarctic
>>>>>> meteorites. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. Article
>>>>>> first published online: 8 March 2012
>>>>>>
>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2012.01341.x/abstrac>>>>
>> t
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best wishes,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul H.
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>
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