[meteorite-list] Daring Russian Sample Return Mission to Phobos Aims For November Liftoff

Thu Oct 13 23:02:05 EDT 2011

Don't know the details, but a robotic arm that drills and then lifts 
maximum of approximately 1cm cores and injectes them into sample 
analysis chambers as well as a return craft is a very complex piece of 
machinery, similar to the Russian undertaking of Luna when 170 g were 
last returned similarly and successfully.  Since this is not a manned 
mission, the scale is much smaller than would be required to go well 
over 46 million miles to Mars' moon vs. a measly jaunt in the local 
neighborhood to Earth's moon which is like 0.25 million miles away.

Now thinking out loud, if what sort of hydraulics or electric motor 
requiring what power at Martian dstances to the Sun would be required 
on those Solar cells.  It reminds me of the case of my Pickup truck 
battery which doubles as my power source in a strewn field.  Hook up 
the inverter and running a half inch drill is quite a lot of energy and 
basically I can't do it.  Now, how big did you want yours and what 
piledriver power source would be available with the infrastructure to 
support it?  Just a rhetorical question really thinking aloud.  ...And 
then how would you inject and seal them successfully in a sample return 
capsule which needs to successfully pass through Earht's atmosphere 
after the hard trip is over.

Other benefits imaginable with their mechanical arm taking smaller 
samples is that, depending on it's reach, it can sample a greater 
variety of materials rather than trying to figure out how an ant-sized 
set up can carry something 5 times its size and tucking into the 
capsule which only could work once, perhaps.

The United States, by comparison, has never returned anything more than 
dust except when using the monster brawny Apollo mission.  And some of 
those only returned 50 kg after taking two men.  One could ask why the 
astronauts were put on a more restricted diet to bring back a few more 
pounds of rocks!

Anyway, that is how I would try to answer this

Kindest wishes
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Deckert <edeckert at triad.rr.com>
To: baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; MexicoDoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 10:19 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Daring Russian Sample Return Mission to 
Phobos Aims For November Liftoff

Hi All,

I have some questions about this.  I realize that there are likely some
limitations to be considered, and that this is an incredible 
undertaking,
but 200 grams is not much material to bring back.  Why the small 
payload?

Would a greater sample weight negatively influence of the survival of 
this
capsule during reentry through Earth's atmosphere?  And why would it 
not be
provided with some kind of transmitter to help locate it after it lands?

Ed

----- Original Message -----
From: "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Daring Russian Sample Return Mission to 
Phobos
Aims For November Liftoff

> August 2014:
>
> "capsule will enter Earth's atmosphere at a speed of 12 kilometers 
per
> second. The capsule has neither parachute nor radio communication and 
will
> break its speed thanks to its conical shape"
>
> Sounds like a GREAT hunt, both for the ~ 200 g of Phobos to be 
returned
> and for the capsule itself in 2014.
>
> Kudos to the ROSCOSMOS !!!
>
> Kindest wishes
> Doug
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> To: Meteorite Mailing List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thu, Oct 13, 2011 6:18 pm
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Daring Russian Sample Return Mission to 
Phobos
> Aims For November Liftoff
>
>
> 
http://www.universetoday.com/89845/daring-russian-sample-return-mission-to-martian-moon-phobos-aims-for-november-liftoff/
>
>
> Daring Russian Sample Return mission to Martian Moon Phobos aims for
> November Liftoff
>
> by Ken Kremer
> Universe Today
> October 13, 2011
>
> In just over 3 weeks time, Russia plans to launch a bold mission to 
Mars
> who's
> objective, if successful, is to land on the Martian Moon Phobos and 
return
> a
> cargo of precious soil samples back to Earth about three years later.
>
> The purpose is to determine the origin and evolution of Phobos and how
> that relates to Mars and the evolution of the solar system.
>
> Liftoff of the Phobos-Grunt space probe will end a nearly two decade
> long hiatus in Russia's exploration of the Red Planet following the
> failed Mars 96 mission and is currently scheduled to head to space 
just
> weeks prior to this year's other Mars mission - namely NASA's next 
Mars
> rover, the Curiosity Mars Science Laboratory (MSL).
>
> Blastoff of Phobos-Grunt may come as early as around Nov. 5 to Nov. 8
> atop a Russian Zenit 3-F rocket from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in
> Kazakhstan. The launch window extends until about Nov. 25. Elements of
> the spacecraft are undergoing final prelaunch testing at Baikonur.
>
> Baikonur is the same location from which Russian manned Soyuz rockets
> lift off for the International Space Station. Just like NASA's 
Curiosity
> Mars rover, the mission was originally intended for a 2009 launch but 
was
> prudently delayed to fix a number of technical problems.
>
> "November will see the launch of the Phobos-Grunt interplanetary
> automatic research station aimed at delivering samples of the Martian
> natural satellite's soil to Earth", said Vladimir Popovkin, head of 
the
> Russian Federal Space Agency, speaking recently at a session of the
> State Duma according to the Voice of Russia, a Russian government news
> agency.
>
> The spacecraft will reach the vicinity of Mars after an 11 month
> interplanetary cruise around October 2012. Following several months of
> orbital science investigations of Mars and its two moons and searching
> for a safe landing site, Phobos-Grunt will attempt history's first 
ever
> touchdown on Phobos. It will conduct a comprehensive analysis of the
> surface of the tiny moon and collect up to 200 grams of soil and rocks
> with a robotic arm and drill.
>
> After about a year of surface operations, the loaded return vehicle 
will
> blast off from Phobos and arrive back at Earth around August 2014. 
These
> would be the first macroscopic samples returned from another body in 
the
> solar system since Russia's Luna 24 in 1976.
>
> "The way back will take between nine and 11 months, after which the
> return capsule will enter Earth's atmosphere at a speed of 12 
kilometers
> per second. The capsule has neither parachute nor radio communication
> and will break its speed thanks to its conical shape," said chief
> spacecraft constructor Maksim Martynov according to a report from the
> Russia Today news agency. He added that there are two soil collection
> manipulators on the lander because of uncertainties in the
> characteristics of Phobos soil.
>
> Phobos-Grunt was built by NPO Lavochkin and consists of a cruise 
stage,
> orbiter/lander, ascent vehicle, and Earth return vehicle.
>
> The spacecraft weighs nearly 12,000 kg and is equipped with a
> sophisticated 50 kg international science payload, in particular from
> France and CNES, the French Space Agency.
>
> Also tucked aboard is the Yinghou-1 microsatellite supplied by China.
> The 110 kg Yinghou-1 is China's first probe to launch to Mars and will
> study the Red Planet's magnetic and gravity fields and surface
> environment from orbit for about 1 year.
>
> "It will be the first time such research [at Mars] will be done by two
> spacecraft simultaneously. The research will help understand how the
> erosion of Mars' atmosphere happens," said Professor Lev Zelyony from
> the Space Research Institute of the Russian Academy of Science,
> according to Russia Today.
>
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