[meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns

[Walter Branch]

Hello Michael,

It really is not that easy.  As this example illustrates, even honest 
dealers can be duped.  I purchase meteorites from a very small list of 
dealers.  Very small.  I have done business with some for 15 years; two I 
started buying from this year.  All have earned my complete trust.

However...

While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they 
trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I 
have?

As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing 
provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a 
given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done?  BTW, I trust 
Anne.

I sold some meteorites recently.  I listed the dealers I purchased the 
meteorites from.  I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan.  I 
told the purchaser I got it from Matt.  Did Matt vett his source, as I have 
done Matt?  I don't know.   Did the person before them?  I don't know.  BTW, 
I trust Matt.

Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident?

As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated.

I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing 
happening.  The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner.

This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all 
day.

-Walter Branch


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
To: "Richard Montgomery" <rickmont at earthlink.net>; "Meteorite List" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns


> >How can I be sure that
>> any whole stone be properly labeled as classified?
> --
> Easy,
>        We have only been saying this on the list since
> The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty
> And integrity.
>
>        God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the
> Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be
> The equivalent of "honesty and integrity." I know an
> example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted
> The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience
> Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person
> Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other "dealer" and
> That individual had attempted to increase price on me
> AFTER I had sent money for a new fall.  Between the
> Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would
> Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an   IMCA logo
> Sufficient in and of itself to "guarantee" authenticity. (I
> DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded,
> However)
>
>        Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long
> Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer,
> Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take
> An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown
> entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown
> Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was
> What I was paying for through other sources than the
> Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive
> Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash
>>From someone I know, etc).
>
>        So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only
>>From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least
> from IMCA members.
>
>        Warm regards, Michael
>
>
>
> On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, "Richard Montgomery" <rickmont at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello List.
>>
>> This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a 
>> question
>> I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now:  How can I be sure that
>> any whole stone be properly labeled as classified?
>>
>> Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that 
>> stand
>> alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in
>> reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and
>> labels, chain of custody, etc.   Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole
>> stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and 
>> stand-up-by-themselves
>> specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with 
>> honor.
>>
>> I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole
>> continue to demonstrate honor.  Reputations are as important as thorough
>> classifications.
>>
>> This recent incident is exactly what we don't need.  If there is honor
>> anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those
>> unfortunate to have been affected.  Congrats to those of you who did.
>>
>> Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest.  Or, we all
>> carry microprobes in our backpacks.
>>
>> Richard Montgomery
>>
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>
>
> --
> "Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig"
> Mark Twain
> --
> 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it,
> 2. Whenever you're right, shut up.
> Shaquille O'Neal
>
>
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