[meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss

Sun May 8 10:08:39 EDT 2011

IT WAS NOT STOLEN. GREG IS FULL OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com

--- On Sun, 5/8/11, Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Count Deiro <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> To: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>, "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, jasonutas at gmail.com, "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 6:37 AM
> Greg, Shawn, Dirk, Jason and List,
> 
> Since seeking expertise in hunting and purchasing
> meteorites from persons I met through this List, I have been
> lied to, and cheated, more than a few times. I must be fair
> and mention I've also made some really great friendships.
> Most of my bad experiences with Listees has been caused by
> my own naiveté' and an innate character fault I
> have.....and that is I want to believe everything that is
> said to me. 
> 
> I bought a few grams of prepared Mifflin from Joe not
> knowing it was stolen.
> 
> This latest scandal is heart breaking. I don't want
> anything to do with stolen meteorites. Greg, I would
> appreciate your telling me which property owner was cheated
> as I wish to return to the rightful owner either the
> meteorite, or a sum of money equal to it's value.
> 
> Greg, I would also ask that you tell me, OL if you wish,
> whom you believe was the other thief. I want to correct any
> dealings I may have had with him too.
> 
> Count Deiro
> IMCA 3536
>   
> 
>            
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> >Sent: May 8, 2011 1:07 AM
> >To: Shawn Alan <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
> jasonutas at gmail.com,
> Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> >Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >
> >Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore... Screw the lies
> and secrets. I think the truth should be out there.
> >About Joes "awesome" stone...
> >
> >He told me personally and we also talked over email
> about it... he found it on the same persons property that
> someone else had already stolen a stone from. 
> >
> >Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second
> hand BS. 
> >
> >He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story
> published about his finding it under a bridge.
> >
> >So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed
> his family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he
> lied about finding it and thats the true story behind the
> "Kerchner Stone" 
> >Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos
> land it fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney
> went...
> >
> >Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time.
> >
> >I took public one person who stole material from
> Mifflin, anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the
> whole story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know
> many on this list know of Joes lie and also the other
> person... but I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on
> this.
> >
> >
> >Greg Catterton
> >www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> >IMCA member 4682
> >On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> >On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
> >
> >
> >--- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >> To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
> jasonutas at gmail.com
> >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM
> >> Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list.
> >> Intriguing  situation, Jason. Thanks for
> sharing.
> >> And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful
> little
> >> slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much "drama"
> in it,
> >> though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough
> to be able
> >> to both keep some and sell enough to feed his
> family. That's
> >> just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe!
> >> Linton
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Alan"
> <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> >> To: <jasonutas at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM
> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Jason and Listers,
> >> 
> >> 
> >> This is a very interesting post in the since I
> have to say
> >> something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder
> contacts
> >> Carl and has him send cash to a PO box..... Red
> flag. Two
> >> the phone number is disconnected..... Three the
> transaction
> >> was done in cash. I have to say with those three
> elements
> >> this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If
> this was a
> >> legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the
> correct ways
> >> via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending
> cash in
> >> the mail to a PO BOX?
> >> 
> >> As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a
> terrestrial age
> >> analysis and also have a cre done which can prove
> or
> >> disprove this theory that someone is suggesting
> that Mifflin
> >> has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the
> case and
> >> that these stones are not related to Mifflin in
> anyway from
> >> the evidence presented by Jason.
> >> 
> >> Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to
> assume
> >> that one this scammer knew what they were doing
> and somehow
> >> was or is connected to the meteorite collecting
> world or
> >> they are really smart and picked up how to scam
> meteorite
> >> hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two
> they knew of
> >> the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly
> fallen
> >> meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in
> question is a
> >> real meteorite but not from the same fall.
> >> 
> >> I think the scammer is one of us or is connected
> to one of
> >> us just because of the circumstances of the event
> and that
> >> the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion
> crust. If
> >> it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have
> been a
> >> stone, but this was not the case it was a real
> meteorite in
> >> the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good
> to be
> >> done by some non meteorite collector but again
> people are
> >> getting smarter these days to make some cash. But
> this means
> >> that this scammer would have to buy a real
> meteorite to turn
> >> around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall.
> >> 
> >> All I can say is if I came into this situation I
> would have
> >> thought the sale would have been a scam right from
> the start
> >> with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad
> I didn't
> >> buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe
> Kerchner
> >> which that had some drama in its self as well.
> >> 
> >> My 2 cents
> >> 
> >> Shawn Alan
> >> IMCA 1633
> >> eBaystore
> >> http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >> jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com
> >> Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011
> >> 
> >> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is
> everyone?
> >> Facebook?
> >> Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> >> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject
> ] [
> >> author ]
> >> 
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Hello All,
> >> 
> >> My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw
> some
> >> strange pieces
> >> of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny.
> People
> >> were talking
> >> about the meteorite having two lithologies,
> but...the
> >> slices and
> >> individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few
> looked
> >> like
> >> H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of
> wear that
> >> freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges,
> exposed
> >> metal flakes
> >> on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had
> been worn
> >> off due to
> >> improper packing), etc.
> >> 
> >> At the time, I did nothing but send a private
> email to Anne
> >> Black
> >> notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some
> other
> >> prominent
> >> list-members addressing it, and they all agreed
> that the
> >> material
> >> looked funny, but that nothing could be done about
> it given
> >> the
> >> required burden of proof.
> >> 
> >> So, I sat on my hands for several months.
> >> 
> >> Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the
> funny-looking
> >> 'Mifflin' on
> >> ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I
> remembered
> >> seeing on
> >> ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was
> able to
> >> see both the
> >> stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent
> metal
> >> grains on the
> >> stone's exterior.
> >> 
> >> I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the
> end-cut, and
> >> it
> >> arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When
> we
> >> returned, I
> >> promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of
> the
> >> University of
> >> Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone
> posthaste.
> >> 
> >> The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait
> until the
> >> probe was
> >> recallibrated so that he could run it again to be
> sure.
> >> 
> >> Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was
> an
> >> equilibrated
> >> H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For
> comparison,
> >> Chergach and
> >> Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and
> 18.6,
> >> respectively.
> >> 
> >> University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of
> the work
> >> on the
> >> Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum,
> over
> >> twenty separate
> >> stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin
> is
> >> classified as an
> >> L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2.
> >> 
> >> I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so
> he could
> >> confirm that
> >> the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the
> piece that I
> >> had sent
> >> him. He did.
> >> 
> >> I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough
> (IMCA), who
> >> purchased it
> >> from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from
> Greg
> >> Catterton (IMCA),
> >> who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the
> finder.
> >> 
> >> Carl told me the following story over the phone:
> >> He was contacted "out of the blue" by someone
> hunting in
> >> the Mifflin
> >> strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated
> that he
> >> thought
> >> there was a "conspiracy against him," because no
> one would
> >> offer him
> >> more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were
> worth more
> >> than that.
> >> So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder
> $10/g,
> >> and a deal was
> >> struck.
> >> 
> >> But...the finder asked that he not be paid via
> paypal or
> >> wire
> >> transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box.
> >> 
> >> So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the
> first of
> >> two 'Mifflin'
> >> stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It
> should be
> >> noted that
> >> Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in
> this deal,
> >> and Greg
> >> sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for
> the
> >> stones.
> >> 
> >> Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his
> old
> >> computer recently
> >> died, so he lacks the name and email address of
> the finder,
> >> as well as
> >> the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he
> sent the
> >> money. Carl
> >> is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from
> the
> >> transaction which
> >> would prove that he did make a large cash
> withdrawal for
> >> the stones.
> >> I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he
> told me
> >> that he had
> >> recently tried to call the finder, himself, only
> to find
> >> that the
> >> number had been disconnected.
> >> He was unwilling to share the number with me,
> regardless.
> >> 
> >> On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had
> likely
> >> ripped him
> >> off, and he said that he believed that it was the
> reason
> >> why he had
> >> been asked to send the money untraceably, as he
> did; Carl
> >> described
> >> the situation as a "typical scam."
> >> 
> >> He also suggested that the stones *might* be from
> an
> >> unrelated fall -- or could be the result of
> Mifflin being an
> >> 'Almahata Sitta sort of
> >> fall.'
> >> 
> >> I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they
> are
> >> unlikely for the
> >> following reasons:
> >> 
> >> 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history
> of
> >> meteoritics.
> >> Different lithologies have been observed in many
> >> meteorites, but to
> >> have individual stones of completely different
> and
> >> unrelated meteorite
> >> types falling separately is unique. Out of the
> 1,238
> >> accepted
> >> observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only
> one has
> >> exhibited
> >> individuals that have consisted of different
> meteorite
> >> types (for
> >> example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc).
> >> 
> >> And it's not that we haven't been looking for
> similar
> >> events; with
> >> each and every fall, multiple stones are analyzed,
> and the
> >> simple fact
> >> of the matter is that they are always
> similar...with *one*
> >> exception.
> >> 
> >> So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How much of
> an
> >> exception? 0.08%
> >> of meteorite falls are like it. Less than a tenth
> of a
> >> percent.
> >> Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also have to
> wonder
> >> about why
> >> or how this hunter managed to find the only two
> H's from
> >> the fall that
> >> were recognized. Over twenty other stones were
> studied and
> >> this
> >> finder supposedly turned up two or three that were
> all H's.
> >> It's 'funny.'
> >> 
> >> The other possibility that Carl advocated is that
> the
> >> stones may actually
> >> have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may be
> part of a
> >> new fall that
> >> somehow slipped under the radar. He initially
> suggested
> >> that they were
> >> from the fireball widely seen across the Midwest
> on May
> >> 10th, but, at the
> >> time, I had paypal records from Greg that stated
> that he
> >> had sent Carl the
> >> money for the stones as early as April 24th.
> >> So we ruled out that possibility..
> >> 
> >> But, I agree; the stones could theoretically have
> come from
> >> a
> >> different fall. The end-cut that I bought showed
> no visible
> >> signs of
> >> weathering. No oxide, no anything. Given the
> weather in and
> >> around
> >> Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can assume
> that the
> >> stones were
> >> picked up within a week or so of having fallen. No
> AMS
> >> reports of
> >> anything in the region for the given timeframe
> doesn't
> >> disprove
> >> anything since meteorites often fall without much
> ado,
> >> but...two falls
> >> in the same place *at the same time?*
> >> Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, though.
> >> 
> >> And you've still got to wonder about why no one
> else found
> >> any
> >> H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. It's not
> like
> >> meteorites were
> >> laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who found
> stones out
> >> there put
> >> considerable time into hunting -- and they all
> found only
> >> L5's. So if
> >> Carl's source were telling the truth, and he did
> find the
> >> stones, it
> >> seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting in the
> Mifflin
> >> strewn-field, because, if he were, he would 1)
> probably
> >> have found
> >> L5's, and 2) other people would probably have
> found H's as
> >> well.
> >> 
> >> The conclusion I draw from this is that the truth
> has
> >> become
> >> well-hidden. What is certain is that I have been
> refunded
> >> by
> >> Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has been
> refunded
> >> by
> >> Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been refunded
> by Greg
> >> Catterton.
> >> 
> >> What I have heard, however, is that Carl has been
> defending
> >> the
> >> legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to
> refund Greg
> >> Catterton.
> >> 
> >> Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin or
> another
> >> meteorite
> >> (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't matter),
> the
> >> simple fact
> >> of the matter is that the material sold by Carl
> has been
> >> shown to be
> >> different from how it was advertised, and as such,
> he
> >> should be
> >> willing to accept its return for a refund. If he
> wishes to
> >> get it
> >> analyzed and sell it to others as a new meteorite,
> that is
> >> his
> >> concern.
> >> 
> >> I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and Greg
> >> unknowingly sold the
> >> material as Mifflin, believing that it was indeed
> what they
> >> sold it
> >> as.
> >> 
> >> That is my 2 cents.
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> Jason Utas
> >> 
> >> ______________________________________________
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