[meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss

Sun May 8 10:07:19 EDT 2011

What greg? What are you on? I did find. It under the bridge. Ask my kids. I NEVER told you that. I told you that marvin found one on somebodys land n didnt pay. Not in the same place i found mine. Where did you hear this bs? It sure wan NOT from me. So before you post crap like this, get your story right and stop lying you are strait lying. I never liked you. Why would i tell you that and nonody else? Get a life Greg. we never even got along. Why would I tell you something like that, but not tell anyone I do get along with or even talk to. We talked on the phone once, it was about some mifflin stones you told me that you had, which was a lie. I DID find it just where and how I said I found it. Get your story strait. You could ruin somebodys reputation like that. WTF get a life greg.
Best,
Joe kerchner
Best Wishes,
Joe Kerchner
http://illinoismeteorites.com
http://skyrockcafe.com

--- On Sun, 5/8/11, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>, jasonutas at gmail.com, "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:07 AM
> Ok. I cant keep this quite anymore...
> Screw the lies and secrets. I think the truth should be out
> there.
> About Joes "awesome" stone...
> 
> He told me personally and we also talked over email about
> it... he found it on the same persons property that someone
> else had already stolen a stone from. 
> 
> Yes, I know this because he told me directly. No second
> hand BS. 
> 
> He lied to everyone and even had a totally BS story
> published about his finding it under a bridge.
> 
> So please, before anyone else goes to say how Joe fed his
> family, took a trip to disney world and what not, he lied
> about finding it and thats the true story behind the
> "Kerchner Stone" 
> Yes, his family ate, but what about the person whos land it
> fell on? Ask her how her family trip to disney went...
> 
> Joe, sorry man, but it had to come out at some time.
> 
> I took public one person who stole material from Mifflin,
> anyone else care to out the other? I dont know the whole
> story, so I will let others tell that tale. I know many on
> this list know of Joes lie and also the other person... but
> I honestly doubt ANYONE will come forward on this.
> 
> 
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/8/11, Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Linton Rohr <lintonius at earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > To: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>,
> jasonutas at gmail.com
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Sunday, May 8, 2011, 3:29 AM
> > Ahoy there, Jason, Shawn and list.
> > Intriguing  situation, Jason. Thanks for sharing.
> > And like you Shawn, I'm glad I got my beautiful
> little
> > slice from Joe. I didn't see all that much "drama" in
> it,
> > though. He put in a lot of work, and found enough to
> be able
> > to both keep some and sell enough to feed his family.
> That's
> > just plain cool, in my book. Thanks Joe!
> > Linton
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Alan" <photophlow at yahoo.com>
> > To: <jasonutas at gmail.com>
> > Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2011 8:38 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > 
> > 
> > Jason and Listers,
> > 
> > 
> > This is a very interesting post in the since I have to
> say
> > something doesn't add up. One an anonymous finder
> contacts
> > Carl and has him send cash to a PO box..... Red flag.
> Two
> > the phone number is disconnected..... Three the
> transaction
> > was done in cash. I have to say with those three
> elements
> > this would have to be a scam, someone got had. If this
> was a
> > legit sale wouldn't it have been done in the correct
> ways
> > via pay pal not some undercover 007 style, sending
> cash in
> > the mail to a PO BOX?
> > 
> > As for testing goes, cant Carl Agee do a terrestrial
> age
> > analysis and also have a cre done which can prove or
> > disprove this theory that someone is suggesting that
> Mifflin
> > has two litholgies, which I have to say isnt the case
> and
> > that these stones are not related to Mifflin in anyway
> from
> > the evidence presented by Jason.
> > 
> > Now the question is who was the scammer. I have to
> assume
> > that one this scammer knew what they were doing and
> somehow
> > was or is connected to the meteorite collecting world
> or
> > they are really smart and picked up how to scam
> meteorite
> > hunter 101. First of all they knew of Carl, two they
> knew of
> > the fall, three, they knew of what a freshly fallen
> > meteorite looks like and four the meteorite in
> question is a
> > real meteorite but not from the same fall.
> > 
> > I think the scammer is one of us or is connected to
> one of
> > us just because of the circumstances of the event and
> that
> > the meteorite is a real meteorite and has fusion
> crust. If
> > it was a non meteoritest, I think it would have been
> a
> > stone, but this was not the case it was a real
> meteorite in
> > the mists of being a fake Mifflin. This is to good to
> be
> > done by some non meteorite collector but again people
> are
> > getting smarter these days to make some cash. But this
> means
> > that this scammer would have to buy a real meteorite
> to turn
> > around to sell as a fake recent meteorite fall.
> > 
> > All I can say is if I came into this situation I would
> have
> > thought the sale would have been a scam right from the
> start
> > with me sending money to a PO box. Also I am glad I
> didn't
> > buy this stuff I was able to buy some from Joe
> Kerchner
> > which that had some drama in its self as well.
> > 
> > My 2 cents
> > 
> > Shawn Alan
> > IMCA 1633
> > eBaystore
> > http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > jason utas jasonutas at gmail.com
> > Sat May 7 21:12:16 EDT 2011
> > 
> > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Where is everyone?
> > Facebook?
> > Next message: [meteorite-list] Mifflin, Amiss
> > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> > author ]
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > My story begins in the summer of last year. I saw
> some
> > strange pieces
> > of 'Mifflin' on ebay that I thought looked funny.
> People
> > were talking
> > about the meteorite having two lithologies, but...the
> > slices and
> > individuals that I saw looked 'off.' A select few
> looked
> > like
> > H-chondrites, and they had the telltale signs of wear
> that
> > freshly-imported Moroccan falls bear: worn edges,
> exposed
> > metal flakes
> > on protruding corners (where the fusion crust had been
> worn
> > off due to
> > improper packing), etc.
> > 
> > At the time, I did nothing but send a private email to
> Anne
> > Black
> > notifying her of my suspicions. I spoke with some
> other
> > prominent
> > list-members addressing it, and they all agreed that
> the
> > material
> > looked funny, but that nothing could be done about it
> given
> > the
> > required burden of proof.
> > 
> > So, I sat on my hands for several months.
> > 
> > Just over a month ago, I saw a piece of the
> funny-looking
> > 'Mifflin' on
> > ebay. It looked similar to some pieces that I
> remembered
> > seeing on
> > ebay months before, and, being an end-cut, I was able
> to
> > see both the
> > stone's funny-looking inside -- and the apparent
> metal
> > grains on the
> > stone's exterior.
> > 
> > I used the 'buy-it-now' option to purchase the
> end-cut, and
> > it
> > arrived while Peter and I were in Morocco. When we
> > returned, I
> > promptly shipped the end-cut off to Tony Irving of
> the
> > University of
> > Washington; he agreed to analyze the stone posthaste.
> > 
> > The results came back, but Tony wanted to wait until
> the
> > probe was
> > recallibrated so that he could run it again to be
> sure.
> > 
> > Lo and behold, he did confirm that my end-cut was an
> > equilibrated
> > H-chondrite, with an olivine Fa of 18.6. For
> comparison,
> > Chergach and
> > Bassikounou both have Fa contents of 18.4 and 18.6,
> > respectively.
> > 
> > University of Madison, Wisconsin performed most of the
> work
> > on the
> > Mifflin fall. Between them and the Field Museum, over
> > twenty separate
> > stones were analyzed. They were all L5. Mifflin is
> > classified as an
> > L5, with an Fa of ~24.9 +/- 0.2.
> > 
> > I then sent Tony the link to the ebay auction so he
> could
> > confirm that
> > the piece that he had analyzed was indeed the piece
> that I
> > had sent
> > him. He did.
> > 
> > I purchased my end-cut from Bryan Scarborough (IMCA),
> who
> > purchased it
> > from Michael Cottingham, who purchased it from Greg
> > Catterton (IMCA),
> > who purchased the stone with Carl Esparza from the
> finder.
> > 
> > Carl told me the following story over the phone:
> > He was contacted "out of the blue" by someone hunting
> in
> > the Mifflin
> > strewn-field. According to Carl, the finder stated
> that he
> > thought
> > there was a "conspiracy against him," because no one
> would
> > offer him
> > more than $5/g. and he believed his finds were worth
> more
> > than that.
> > So, according to Carl, he then offered the finder
> $10/g,
> > and a deal was
> > struck.
> > 
> > But...the finder asked that he not be paid via paypal
> or
> > wire
> > transfer; he wanted cash mailed to a P.O. Box.
> > 
> > So, Carl mailed the money to the P.O. Box and the
> first of
> > two 'Mifflin'
> > stones was over-nighted to him the next day. It should
> be
> > noted that
> > Carl included Greg Catterton as his partner in this
> deal,
> > and Greg
> > sent over several hundred dollars to help pay for the
> > stones.
> > 
> > Unfortunately, as Carl said over the phone, his old
> > computer recently
> > died, so he lacks the name and email address of the
> finder,
> > as well as
> > the number/address of the P.O. Box to which he sent
> the
> > money. Carl
> > is also unwilling to share the bank receipt from the
> > transaction which
> > would prove that he did make a large cash withdrawal
> for
> > the stones.
> > I asked Carl for the finder's phone number, but he
> told me
> > that he had
> > recently tried to call the finder, himself, only to
> find
> > that the
> > number had been disconnected.
> > He was unwilling to share the number with me,
> regardless.
> > 
> > On the phone, Carl suggested that his source had
> likely
> > ripped him
> > off, and he said that he believed that it was the
> reason
> > why he had
> > been asked to send the money untraceably, as he did;
> Carl
> > described
> > the situation as a "typical scam."
> > 
> > He also suggested that the stones *might* be from an
> > unrelated fall -- or could be the result of Mifflin
> being an
> > 'Almahata Sitta sort of
> > fall.'
> > 
> > I can't disprove either of those ideas, but they are
> > unlikely for the
> > following reasons:
> > 
> > 1) Almahata Sitta is a unique event in the history of
> > meteoritics.
> > Different lithologies have been observed in many
> > meteorites, but to
> > have individual stones of completely different and
> > unrelated meteorite
> > types falling separately is unique. Out of the 1,238
> > accepted
> > observed falls in the meteoritical bulletin, only one
> has
> > exhibited
> > individuals that have consisted of different
> meteorite
> > types (for
> > example, H + L, Ureilite + EH, etc).
> > 
> > And it's not that we haven't been looking for similar
> > events; with
> > each and every fall, multiple stones are analyzed, and
> the
> > simple fact
> > of the matter is that they are always similar...with
> *one*
> > exception.
> > 
> > So, Almahata Sitta is an exception. How much of an
> > exception? 0.08%
> > of meteorite falls are like it. Less than a tenth of
> a
> > percent.
> > Possible...but extremely unlikely. We also have to
> wonder
> > about why
> > or how this hunter managed to find the only two H's
> from
> > the fall that
> > were recognized. Over twenty other stones were studied
> and
> > this
> > finder supposedly turned up two or three that were all
> H's.
> > It's 'funny.'
> > 
> > The other possibility that Carl advocated is that the
> > stones may actually
> > have been found in Wisconsin -- and they may be part
> of a
> > new fall that
> > somehow slipped under the radar. He initially
> suggested
> > that they were
> > from the fireball widely seen across the Midwest on
> May
> > 10th, but, at the
> > time, I had paypal records from Greg that stated that
> he
> > had sent Carl the
> > money for the stones as early as April 24th.
> > So we ruled out that possibility..
> > 
> > But, I agree; the stones could theoretically have come
> from
> > a
> > different fall. The end-cut that I bought showed no
> visible
> > signs of
> > weathering. No oxide, no anything. Given the weather
> in and
> > around
> > Mifflin at the time of the fall, we can assume that
> the
> > stones were
> > picked up within a week or so of having fallen. No
> AMS
> > reports of
> > anything in the region for the given timeframe
> doesn't
> > disprove
> > anything since meteorites often fall without much
> ado,
> > but...two falls
> > in the same place *at the same time?*
> > Granted, it's possible. Not very likely, though.
> > 
> > And you've still got to wonder about why no one else
> found
> > any
> > H-chondrites while looking for Mifflin. It's not like
> > meteorites were
> > laying thickly on the ground. Everyone who found
> stones out
> > there put
> > considerable time into hunting -- and they all found
> only
> > L5's. So if
> > Carl's source were telling the truth, and he did find
> the
> > stones, it
> > seems best to assume that he wasn't hunting in the
> Mifflin
> > strewn-field, because, if he were, he would 1)
> probably
> > have found
> > L5's, and 2) other people would probably have found
> H's as
> > well.
> > 
> > The conclusion I draw from this is that the truth has
> > become
> > well-hidden. What is certain is that I have been
> refunded
> > by
> > Bryan, and I know for a fact that Bryan has been
> refunded
> > by
> > Michael Cottingham, who has in turn been refunded by
> Greg
> > Catterton.
> > 
> > What I have heard, however, is that Carl has been
> defending
> > the
> > legitimacy of his stones, and is refusing to refund
> Greg
> > Catterton.
> > 
> > Regardless of whether the material is Mifflin or
> another
> > meteorite
> > (from Wisconsin or from NWA -- it doesn't matter),
> the
> > simple fact
> > of the matter is that the material sold by Carl has
> been
> > shown to be
> > different from how it was advertised, and as such, he
> > should be
> > willing to accept its return for a refund. If he
> wishes to
> > get it
> > analyzed and sell it to others as a new meteorite,
> that is
> > his
> > concern.
> > 
> > I am fairly certain that Bryan, Michael, and Greg
> > unknowingly sold the
> > material as Mifflin, believing that it was indeed what
> they
> > sold it
> > as.
> > 
> > That is my 2 cents.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Jason Utas
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
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