[meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria

[Becky and Kirk]

I would agree with your assessment Linton. I  presume time will tell if that 
proof indeed presents itself.

Cheers,
Kirk....:-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Linton Rohr" <lintonius at earthlink.net>
To: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria


> Kirk, Marc, and listoids at large,
> I'm hardly qualified to opine scientifically, but I think we can all agree
> that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof".
> A good weekend to all.
> Linton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
> To: "Marc Fries" <fries at psi.edu>; "Meteorite-list List" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
>
>
>> Hi All,
>> But---on the other hand---what Marc is saying could also be used for his 
>> own "negative" analysis or his own "Lowell Effect" of this possible new 
>> E.T. discovery. Indeed, Marc is in fact, "letting your own doubts make a 
>> fool of your reason".
>>
>> Since everyone will always have their own "predisposed opinion"---one 
>> could say this about both sides of the coin----yes?  We need to wait and 
>> see what future analysis may find before pronouncing something as "110 % 
>> bullshit".
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>> Kirk.....:-)
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marc Fries" <fries at psi.edu>
>> To: "Meteorite-list List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 5:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
>>
>>
>>> Howdy all
>>>
>>> Here's my two cents, pure and simple - this paper is 110% bullshit.  The 
>>> filaments the paper addresses are nothing new.  They are apparently 
>>> amorphous sulfates formed from aqueous alteration of fine sulfides in 
>>> the CI's.  You can see that in the EDS spectra published in the paper - 
>>> the predominant elements are sulfur, oxygen and magnesium.  I.e., they 
>>> are sulfates (e.g. Mg2SO4 + hydration water).  Some silicon "leaks" into 
>>> the measurement from materials behind one of the filaments.
>>> I happen to have two CIs on loan to me right now - Orgueil and Tonk.  I 
>>> have Raman spectra of the filaments found in both meteorites.  They are 
>>> sulfates.  My personal Surprise Meter registers a whopping Zero.
>>> The argument is made that the lack of nitrogen in these "fossils" 
>>> implies that they pre-date their residence on Earth.  This argument 
>>> starts with the assumption that the filaments are fossils, and then uses 
>>> the non-detection of nitrogen to "prove" that they are fossils.  This is 
>>> a circular argument.  Here's a more supportable hypothesis: no nitrogen 
>>> was detected because they are not fossils, but rather exactly what has 
>>> been known for decades - they are amorphous sulfate filaments caused by 
>>> hydration of fine sulfides in the rock.
>>>
>>> This paper is a result of something I like to call the Lowell Effect. 
>>> Basically, it is what happens when someone stares into an instrument 
>>> expecting (or hoping) to see proof of life in the target.  Percival 
>>> Lowell did it through a telescope with Mars, drawing elaborate "canals" 
>>> in his mind which indicated (to him) an advanced martian civilization. 
>>> Certain other scientists do it with the Apex chert while peering through 
>>> microscopes, and with hydrothermal graphite found in rocks from Isua, 
>>> Greenland through all manner of instruments.  The author of this paper 
>>> pulled a Lowell Effect result out of his posterior after looking at CIs 
>>> with an electron microscope.  Where I come from, we also call that 
>>> "letting your hopes make a fool of your reason".
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Marc Fries
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2011, at 6:56 AM, drtanuki wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>> There is a very interesting newly published paper about cyanobacteria 
>>>> found inside CI1 meteorites:
>>>>
>>>> Journal of Cosmology, 2011, Vol 13, xxx.
>>>> JournalofCosmology.com, March, 2011
>>>> Fossils of Cyanobacteria in CI1 Carbonaceous Meteorites:
>>>> Implications to Life on Comets, Europa, and Enceladus
>>>> Richard B. Hoover, Ph.D.
>>>> NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, AL
>>>>
>>>> The abstract can be read here:
>>>>
>>>> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/fossils-of-cyanobacteria-in-ci1.html
>>>>
>>>> Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
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