[meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

Tue Jun 28 04:05:07 EDT 2011

Hi Sterling and List,

Hmm, don't tempt me! (actually Iv'e already built a probe (well a Helium Baloon, with Gamma probe and electronics) to go to into Nearspace, but somehow I think a moon shot might take me a while!!

Maybe one day i'll get around to making a set of Massive Laser tweezers, and scoop some material off the lunar surface into an earth crossing trajectory!! ;)

Seriously though - I'm fairly sure that in my lifetime some corporation or other (probably from China) will do a private sample return mission, so maybe i'll just hold out!

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: 27 June 2011 21:43
To: Mark Ford; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

Mark, List,

Go Get Your Own Moon Rocks!

What? You say you can't afford a small intra-planetary
vehicle, a little robot to go to the Moon and collect a few
kilos of Moon Rocks for you?

No problemo.

Then what you need is is to buy a share of a private
space company's Lunar Return Mission, right? Like:
http://www.interorbital.com/Lunar%20Sample%20Return_1.htm

All that is needed to secure a share of returned lunar
material is a 10% deposit (against a $7500/gm cost).

You say all you want is to put a micro-satellite into low
Earth orbit, you say? They have a satellite kit (with
launch included) for only $8,000:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/07/tubesat-personal-satellite/
You even get a free second launch if the first one fails.

More about them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interorbital_Systems
"IOS holds an active Office of Commercial Space
Transportation Launch License...  is currently working
on a line of launch vehicles aimed at winning the Google
Lunar X Prize. The company was also a competitor for
both the Ansari X-Prize and America's Space Prize..."

Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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is limited to the cost of said electrons, which I would refund
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Ford" <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

Personally I completely disagree with the cost estimate of 5-8 billion, 
a simple small robotic sample mission really ought to be not too 
difficult (Russia did Lunar sample return on a total shoestring in the 
60's).  I would send a simple, small lander, grab some rocks in a scoop 
then take off and return. (Turning the mission into a full rover 
prospecting mission is bound to increase the cost drastically!)

 The stardust mission for example cost around $200 Million (that was a 
sample return all be it a space capture). A lunar sample return would be 
much cheaper than a Martian one obviously, but small mars rocket motor 
designs and a return module have already been studied in several 
different NASA/ESA feasibility proposals, and I would be surprised if 
they cost anything like 5 Billion, I rekon it could be done for less 
than $500 Million, if it was a simple small grab and return system.

 I'd also do it using a cheaper and more fuel efficient return method 
than traditionally, such as Ion engine technology, it would take much 
longer but would require much less of a fuel payload than a conventional 
return to earth would, then I would advocate using the ISS as a capture 
and return lab, rather than risking a traditional re-entry, this would 
save money too, as you wouldn't be returning a complete re-entry vehicle 
back from mars!

I think you would easily sell a few kilos of Apollo moon rock with no 
trouble at all, there are enough rich billionaires (probably they would 
not even be meteorite collectors) out there who would snap it up, it 
would be a truly unique opportunity this would attract plenty of 
speculators -it would be a different market than meteorite samples.

Besides plenty of people would buy microscopic amounts (put me down for 
an Apollo 11 super-micro any time!!).

Best,
Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin 
Altmann
Sent: 27 June 2011 13:13
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

Hi Mark,

>I estimate we probably could fund an automatic sample return mission to
both mars [and] to the moon, just for >the 'cost' of a few off cut 
Apollo
lunar chunks..

Well the cost estimation of an automatic Mars sample return mission, 
then a
cooperation between NASA & ESA - a rover probing different Martian rocks 
on
surface - and where 500grams shall be expedited back to Earth - is 
estimated
in the 5-8 billion $ range.

Makes up a gram price, if you want to cover it with the sale of half of 
the
Apollo rocks, of something around 35k$.
(But who shall buy that stuff? - after 13 years STILL not all of DaG 400 
is
sold, and that at current prices around 1k$/g - and that stone had only
1.4kg...).

Hmm, my last mail didn't made it through.

Best!
Martin

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mark
Ford
Gesendet: Montag, 27. Juni 2011 13:41
An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

I certainly don't think NASA should sell all the moon rock, but I don't 
see
any harm in selling off a few very carefully selected waste pieces
(currently they even count back and store all the waste dust from 
cutting
losses!), there must be a large amount of material that is contaminated 
by
the terrestrial environment by processing/handling etc, that has no 
special
value to science (it's useless). Especially if this money was genuinely 
used
to further space research (naively assuming it really was used for 
this!),
it could actually be used to fund a lot more space/lunar research!

I estimate we probably could fund an automatic sample return mission to 
both
mars [and] to the moon, just for the 'cost' of a few off cut Apollo 
lunar
chunks..

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin
Altmann
Sent: 27 June 2011 08:59
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NASA could sell...

To sell the Apollo rocks? Have you taken leave of your senses?!?

Those rocks, which the heroes of my youth brought back, risking their 
lives,
and in the greatest technical adventure of all times??

You're all watching too much TV! Too much science fiction!

We can't go around in the solar system in that way you're taking a cab!
Manned spaceflight is extremely difficult and extremely dangerous.

Look what we can do. At the moment we have an assemblage of tin cans in 
such
a low orbit, a kind of water ski in spaceflight, in a so low orbit, that 
the
grandmas call the police, whenever the ISS cross over their heads!
And more we cannot!

Now we are all trembling, that the little box called "Dawn" will not 
fail
and send us some data from the front garden of our tiny solar system.

Lunar materials, think to the millions of man-hours spent in the 
deserts, to
assemble the tiny pile of lunar meteorites, so small and light-weighted,
that everyone of us can lift it without difficulties.
(And think about that, whenever your nose starts to wrinkle, when such a
specimen offered is lousy 100 bucks more expensive per gram than you
expected.)

And although I feel still quite healthy, I won't live to see a man or 
woman
on Moon again (not to mention Mars).

Really.
Rather sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

And which meteorites shall NASA sell?
Those from ANSMET?
That isn't possible because the Antarctic Treaty prevents that,

and hey - we're all buyers and sellers of meteorites, so we definitely 
know,
that the revenues would be out of absolutely all proportion to the 
expenses
paid to collect these meteorites.
And thus, it would be even probably elements of offence, a 
misappropriation.

Huh, we're just selling a brachinite, the freshest available, where in 
36
years of Antarctic searches by all countries together not more than 3
different were found, together half a pound.
And we are selling that one in slices and not in bulk - and at a total,
wherefore you can pay having an ANSMET-Team exactly one single day on 
the
ice!
These are the relations.

It is absolutely necessary, that the ANSMET meteorites stay in the 
courtesy
of governmental institutes and universities - their acquisition was
expensive enough! (No offense, in my eyes these costs are fully 
justified).
To sell them on the market would bring in peanuts compared to that, what 
the
taxpayer had spent for them.

And Richard, who says, that NASA wouldn't buy meteorites?
Nasa consists of hundreds of departments - of course if you address to 
the
janitor, he won't buy a meteorite.
But those exploring the solar system do, of course.

And the abnormal opinion of people, pretending to be scientists 
interested
in meteorites,
that a Moon or a chondrite is per se a crime,
that you found at best in countries with an underdeveloped meteorite
research like e.g. Australia or Oman,
but certainly not in USA.

;-)
Martin

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