[meteorite-list] Moon Dust

[MexicoDoug]

JG wrote to MG:
"What law are you talking about?"

Ditto! A fact-supported discussion would be so much nicer.

It is my understanding that when Apollo lost its funding, oodles of 
relics entered the private domain and there wasn't much ado about it - 
rather, a tacit acceptance and a party atmosphere pervaded in the wake 
of Moonphoria and non had any scientific value at the time. Where are 
the retroactive vigorous sting operations hunting down these national 
treasures? I am sure the same "laws", whatever they might be, cover 
them.

Post-facto contrived rules are a violation which seems to date to the 
Magna Carta and any remotely civilized society. All material loaned or 
provided in exchange for analyses to be done which is covered by modern 
agreements (as Jeff alludes to) has a clear paper trail, but there are 
the nonsensical cases like tape on the Hasselblad magazines demonstrate 
how ludicrous things can become for reasons foreign to science and 
domestic to collectors willingness to pay. I take my place behind the 
line of those who have already pointed this out.

Moon specimens that were incidental and innocuous gifts of questionable 
or no value at the time seem to have taken a special place. But, there 
are other exceptions as well. As I peruse the aisles of the gift shop 
at KSC I am tempted to buy a Space Shuttle heat tile. Yet NASA has 
allegedly gone on record saying that it will not dispose of them by 
sale to the public (reason: we could be liable for unintended harm they 
might cause). Rumor has it that the Soviet Buran tiles are more 
interesting to collect and Russia has no such hang ups over them, so 
I'll hold out for one of them. If I had an American one it would not be 
satisfying in present company. I couldn't freely share it with my 
international friends without risking being thrown in jail for 
providing sensitive military secrets to other nations... at least that 
is the rumor on how it was for a long time ...

There is a clear demonstration of double standard and a willingness to 
invent retroactive laws, which should be prohibited constitutionally, 
but the American system separates the judicial and that makes 
legislation from the bench a convenient option in cases like this. How 
frustrating for Mr. Rosen, the guy who bought the gifted moon rock from 
a Honduran official for a large sum of money. The government simply 
snatched it from him and it was not because the Hondurans filed a 
claim. If he had been compensated for his recovery of the specimen it 
would be different in my view. But the way it went down, there is 
reason to be wary of the court's freeloading and arbitrary mindset in 
these cases. It is quite removed from science and boils down to 
politics and setting cruel and unusual precedents at the expense of 
citizens for prior shoddy control practices. Mr. Rosen, the owner at 
the time of the Moon rock was never charged with any criminal activity 
- they just took the rock plaque and left him to brood. If they could 
have charged him I sort of think they would have given the zest to make 
examples out of people. But they got what they wanted - a precedent of 
no-ownership when before there was none to my knowledge.

I would point out that this nonsensical legal gymnastic that seems to 
have developed ought to be applied to each and every scientist in the 
United States that is on any payroll or grant for a project who 
supposedly buys specimens in his free time. How different is such 
piggybacking from the microgram residues on a piece of tape out of a 
camera? How did Dr. King amass that huge personal collection on many 
field trips to places such as, aw, forget it. Not worth going into, it 
would be more counterproductive than good to go there.

Best wishes
Doug





-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Grossman <jngrossman at gmail.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Jun 25, 2011 8:34 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Dust


What law are you talking about? 
 
On 6/25/2011 7:55 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote: 
> Hi Jeff and List, 
> 
> What strikes me here is that NASA has 842 pounds of lunar material 
and 
> they are apparently bent out shape over a few milligrams of dust 
> clinging to a piece of scotch tape. It's absolutely silly and it 
> speaks of skewed priorities. 
> 
> It was mentioned to me in private email by a respected list member 
> that the NASA samples in question were not addressed by the law until 
> 1972. If that is true, then it seems to me that any sample removed 
> legally prior to that date would be "grand-fathered in" as legal. 
> 
> A relevant example would be trinitite. Trinitite removed before the 
> law specifically addressed it is legal. However, going to the site 
> now and removing trinitite is illegal. Another example would be 
> Canyon Diablo iron meteorites - those CD meteorites removed before 
the 
> "prohibition" are legal. Those removed today are illegal because one 
> must trespass to get them. The devil is in the details - how does one 
> distinguish a legal Diablo meteorite from an illegal one? And how 
> would one determine a legal piece of dusty tape from an illegal one? 
> 
> ATTENTION GOVERNMENT - STOP PISSING AWAY OUR TAX MONEY CHASING AFTER 
> DUSTY TAPE! Instead, here are some suggestions for using our tax 
> money - build homes for the homeless, feed the hungry, offer medical 
> care to the sick, create jobs for the unemployed, fund the sciences, 
> or any number of things that are more important than dusty tape. 
> 
> Best regards, 
> 
> MikeG 
> 
 
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