[meteorite-list] Is Vesta Mong Nong?

Sun Jul 24 02:34:39 EDT 2011

"when an object is not in a tightly bound orbit confiscation and just 
gets "pushed" rather than crushed?"

That was a question out of left field!

I'm not familiar with orbit confiscations, but, if you mean that the 
object is free floating far away ...  That would be the case of 
something distant from the Sun, at the edge of the gravitational well 
if you like graphic thoughts.  However, gravitational attraction at a 
given distance in AU from the Sun or other main body is only a function 
of the object's mass.

That said, if the impactor is playing "catch-up" to the target, of 
course you will have a lower energy collision vs. the head on case: 
everything is relative.  In the unlikely (but possible, especially in 
some special cases that could be dreamed up) case you had two objects 
traveling at a tiny difference by essentially the same speed and 
co-orbital, they'd probably either turn into a dumbbell shape or one 
would form a captured moon-situation.

What you want to consider is the kinetic energy of the impact which is 
successfully transferred/damped between the objects.  The kinetic 
energy will be proportional to mv^2 and will give you, in terms of 
physics, the "work" done ... i.e., a transfer of energy from one to the 
other; that is, how much moving and shaking and excavating and phase 
changing and heating and other energy forms is done, including changes 
in potential energy.

In plain English, a smack is a smack, and the first order of concern is 
the relative velocity.  If two objects happen to have their directions 
aligned and one approaches the other rear side with a difference of 10 
km/s, those damages are the same as a head on collision when the 
difference is 10 km/s.  It may be more likely that a rear collision 
happens at a slower relative velocity but it is hard for me to think 
that a 10 km/s push would be any different than a 10 km/s head on.  At 
a slower velocity, e.g. 1 km/s, it might very well transfer a higher 
proportion of the impactor's energy into orbital speed (at half the 
speed, for example, the impact would take longer and likely excavate 
less - but the overall energy would be less too:

At slower relative speeds, less energy is exchanged and less damage 
will be done.  Same concept works for when meteorites are more easily 
surviving the landing on earth.

But lots of billiard-inspired or multiball roulette:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ui0Wxoz-BQ#t=2m45s
Variations on the theme are possible and impact guys can maybe make a 
living looking at these scenarios in hopes of pairing them to the real 
worlds.

A glancing blow, for example will allow the impactor to possibly only 
transfer part of its energy and generally go on its way with the 
remainder of it.  The there is the revolving about the axis of the 
target which is a separate component of kinetic energy.  A glancing 
blow in the direction of revolution will force a bit of 
refining/expanding on the timing of the transfer of energy of impact 
since kinetic energy.  It seems clear to me that if you could come up 
with circumstances to prolong the collision time, a higher percent of 
the impact energy can be used for changing spin or speed.  But just 
because 70% of "X" megatons goes into speeding up or slowing down or 
spinning, etc., doesn't mean that for a higher energy collision that 
10% of "Y" gigatons won't skunk the former.  Confusing until the 
initial conditions are defined ...

2c

Kindest wishes
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: John Lutzon <jl at hc.fdn.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:41 am
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Is Vesta Mong Nong?

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com> 
To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com> 
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 12:28 AM 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Vesta Mong Nong? 

 Hi Mike, List 

 Case in point. 

 http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap970630.html 

 John 

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
<meteoritemike at gmail.com> 
> To: "John Lutzon" <jl at hc.fdn.com> 
> Cc: "brian burrer" <brimane at gmail.com>; > 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> 
> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 11:52 PM 
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is Vesta Mong Nong? 
> 
> 
>> Hi John and List, 
>> 
>> John said - "So, are impact forces mitigated when an object is not 
in 
>> a tightly bound 
>> orbit confiscation and just gets "pushed" rather than crushed?" 
>> 
>> That is something I had never considered.  Is it possible that a 
body 
>> like Vesta could "give" or "roll with the punch" and this might 
>> mitigate the impact forces as John suggested? 
>> 
>> Best regards, 
>> 
>> MikeG 
>> 
>> -- >> 
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>> 
>> On 7/22/11, John Lutzon <jl at hc.fdn.com> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> Hello List, 
>>> 
>>> I don't know what i don't know---so: 
>>> The latest photo of Vesta shows about 1/2 of this protoplanet which 
is >>> about 
>>> 350 miles in diameter 
>>> and the largest crater looks approximately 1/10 0f this radius 
which >>> means 
>>> the crater dia. is about 17.5 miles--quite a hit for such a little 
guy. 
>>>  I remember seeing a photo of a much smaller asteroid with an 
impact >>> crater 
>>> of 
>>> about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of the whole thing and wonder why it 
wasn't 
>>> cracked in half or completely obliterated. 
>>> 
>>> So, are impact forces mitigated when an object is not in a tightly 
bound 
>>> orbit confiscation and just gets "pushed" rather than crushed? 
>>> 
>>> John 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "brian burrer" <brimane at gmail.com> 
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> 
>>> Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 10:57 PM 
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is Vesta Mong Nong? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> The new photo of Vesta resembles a giant Mong Nong tektite- I did 
not 
>>>> expect to see so many layers. 
>>>> 
>>>> Happy hunting, 
>>>> Brian 
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>> 
>  
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