[meteorite-list] Meteorites 101 (term: bolides)

Sun Jan 16 20:22:13 EST 2011

Hi, List

I award Geekly Martin (his name for himself)
the Palm for metoritic scholarship. All I did was
look at dictionary definitions and took from the
Merriam-Webster "first known use: 1834" given
by a synopsis of many dictionaries and encyclopedias:
http://www.memidex.com/bolide

Dictionary scholarship is no match for yours.
Obviously, the term bolide has a long historical
usage even if the IAU does not consider it a
definable term. Big bright fragmenters or
bursters would qualify as "bolides" and will
likely still be called that for some time to come..

Thanks for the information!

Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2011 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101 (term: bolides)

> Hi Sterling and Chris,
>
> Bolis, bolide ist he classical term for the FIERY ones among the four 
> classes of meteors as atmospheric phenomena (would have to look, I 
> guess, should be from Aristotle or maybe one could check Plinius for 
> the term).
>
> Note, that Chladni's pioneering work was therefore also titled: "Ueber 
> FEUERmeteore...."
> About fiery meteors (and the masses, which fall with them).
>
> Thus, it's a scientific term and much longer in use, as one supposes.
> Denominating a special class among meteors, the fiery ones.
>
> The other three types of meteors according the four elements were the 
> aqueous ones, those of the air (and earthy meteors.
>
> Today we're using "meteor" only for the fiery class and there in 
> particular for the atmospheric light phenomen of falling rocks from 
> space.
>
> Some older references, only as examples:
>
> From John Henry Alsted's famous encyclopedia (1630),
> there is given the definition of meteors and the synonyms.
>
> (Scientiarum omnium Encylopaediae, Vol I, p.31)
>
> "37. Meteora vera quotuplicia?
> Quatuor sunt classes ipsorum.
> In prima classe sunt meteora ignea, numero XIV videlicet,
> Fax, Ignis perpendicularis, BOLIS, Capra Saltans,..."
>
> (37. How many true meteors are there?
> There are four classes of them.
> In the first class there are the fiery meteors, 16 as follows:
> Flame (or torch), hanging fire, bolide, jumping goat,.... )
>
>
> Or another one from Jan Makowsky "Opuscula philosophica omnia" of 1660
> (for my friend Andrzej, because Maccovius was born in Powiat Pilski):
> Volume II., chapter 5:  "De Speciebus Meteoris" - about the types of 
> meteors.
>
> "III. In aere summo exoriuntur ista Meteora:
>      flamma seu fax,
>      trabs seu ignis perpendicularis,
>      bolis."
>
> III. In the highest air originate these meteors:
>      flame or torch,
>      bar or hanging fire,
>      bolide.
>
> (...) "Bolis est sumus mediocriter longus;
>       crastoribus partibus, aequaliter cum subtilioribus commixtis 
> constans;
>       qui accensus in summo aere, sursumque volans, teli ardensis, 
> discurrentisque formam refert."
>
>
> Therefore I think, "bolide" has, historically seen at least, the prior 
> rights, as it was a scientific term, much more precise than the more 
> unspecific "meteor", which was a hyperonym for all kinds of 
> atmospheric phenomena.
>
>
> Btw.  Bolis has a second, completely different technical meaning.
> It means also the lead, the plumb line, especially in nautics.
>
> Hence - as you already told, "ballein" - something which you throw or 
> drop.
>
> Speaking of "ballein",
> Remember that the Boss of Gods, Zeus Aegis, hurls flashes and throws 
> thunderbolts towards us!
>
> (Bolt...Bolid....   uuuh kitchen-etymology... who knows....)
>
>
> Best!
> Geeky Martin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com 
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von 
> Sterling K. Webb
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. Januar 2011 04:04
> An: Chris Peterson; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101
>
> Bolidc:
>
> The term  was first used, in the French language, in 1834.
> The French is derived from classical Latin bolis (generally bolidis),
> fiery meteor, originally from the classical Greek, ß????, missile,
> arrow,
> or flash of lightning, akin to ballein, to throw.
>
> Definition: a brilliant meteor with a magnitude exceeding -4,
> especially one that explodes; a very bright fireball. Most dictionary
> definitions mention explosion or fragmentation.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101
>
>
>> Most researchers I know consider the body to be a meteoroid while it
>> is in its meteor phase. The term "meteoroid" is used to specifically
>> identify the body, and distinguish it from the meteor effect.
>>
>> It is also common, and IMO correct, to talk of a meteorite before it
>> hits the ground. Once the meteor phase has ended, surviving material
>> will become meteorites, and may quite acceptably be called such (as 
>> in
>> discussing "the dark flight phase of a meteorite").
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> *****************************************
>> Chris L Peterson
>> Cloudbait Observatory
>> http://www.cloudbait.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Walter Branch" <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
>> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:13 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites 101
>>
>>
>>> Hello Everyone,
>>>
>>> The term "meteor" refers to the light phenomenon as an object from
>>> space enters the Earth's atmosphere.  What is the proper term for 
>>> the
>>> object itself?
>>>
>>> A  meteoroid is an object in space.  Is it still called a meteoroid
>>> when it enters the Earth's atmosphere?
>>>
>>> -Walter
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 