[meteorite-list] Shirokovsky

[Linton Rohr]

Greetings listoids.
Doug, I believe you've introduced an important distinction, upon which I've 
been  intending on opining. Like you said, "a meteorwrong by most 
definitions is *natural* material than can be confused with an authentic 
meteorite out in the field." Shirokovsky, on the other hand, was a 
deliberate fake. A man-made concoction for the sole purpose of fraud. (Based 
on what I've read here.) I can understand the interest in a legitimate 
meteorwrong - I bought a piece of Mendota myself - but, in my opinion, 
Shirokovsky does not deserve to be in that category. I would be no more 
likely to purchase a sample, than to intentionally purchase counterfeit 
currency. It has about the same worth.
But while I have to agree with Adam's point of view on this, I can somewhat 
understand the opposing views. Respect them, anyway. Interestingly though, 
most all of those in favor of collecting it, already have it in their 
collections. A case of "sour grapes", in reverse? ;^)
Just my two cents. Actual value may vary.
Linton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky


> Adam wrote:
>
> "I see Shirokovsky as being off topic"
>
> I agree and would keep my mouth shut iof I thought it were an innocent 
> scam that was over and reparations made.
>
> Since I agree with Adam as such this will be my only post, since what is 
> on topic, interestingly, is clarifying that it is not a 
> eteorwrong*..   - a meteorwrong by most definitions is natural material 
> than can be confused with an authentic meteorite out in the field.  This 
> is not that case, this is the case of the apple colored moldavites faked 
> on eBay.  This is a *PSEUDOMETEORITE* and that term is doing it a favor, 
> and we should IMO all be very clear about that for the mutual benefit of 
> all of our collections and future material that could enter them.
>
> Shirokovsky may elicit the Pavlovian Dogs salivation in collectors that 
> haven't been soiled by it.  You know - save that salivation for the real 
> stuff, Shirokovsky isn't even in the category of a blow-up meteorite doll. 
> There is nothing technologically interesting about Shirokovsky, the matrix 
> is nothing better than you can find in a cheap faux bead shop, and why 
> people think it would have an etch pattern is beyond me.  The only reason 
> to have it is because when you drive by an accident on the highway and see 
> an accident with blood and guts, you have to stop and cause everyone else 
> a traffic jam as you gawk.  And then you have to tell everyone else, yes, 
> look I have a piece of that corpse on the road, look at me!
>
> I wouldn't feel this way at all if the story were all closed and those who 
> have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars (yes, the amount is correct) 
> were ok and the crooks in jail. But the collective memory seems to mean 
> nothing even if we can learn from our past. Everything would be cool in 
> the collectible category if there were a fixed amount of Shirokovsky out 
> there.
>
> It is not all accounted for and it gives someone else the idea of 
> manufacturing other meteorites; why, instead of getting locked up for 
> stealing from several collectors and causing all kinds of business 
> heartache beyond the active imagination of many listmembers, the message 
> is clear.  Make a Shitpkovsky fake, if you get caught, be nowhere to be 
> found and burn the people who trusted you, cause a great deal of 
> pollutuion that everyone else has to clean up (the equivalent of the Exxon 
> Valdez, and we all cleaned it up), and then appear 10 years later selling 
> more of it like war memorabilia from the dark side and getting people to 
> actually argue it is a good thing to have in collections.
>
> Huuumpt.  I still remember being at a function 3 years ago where the big 
> meteorite dealer insisted to an ignorant crowd that his many Shirokovsky 
> pseudometeorites.  He sold them for $25/g and many just three years ago 
> painted me as someone who didn't know since he was the expert (ha).
>
> Here's what the serious problem is: the material was all controlled before 
> by the dealer terrorists and collector rapists.  If you bought a piece of 
> this suckerite from one of the original good faith dealers, you did a fine 
> thing to help bail them out and had the cute thing to discuss it in a 
> charitable show and tell.  But - Now assigning a collection value to new 
> material all you are doing is having money chase the masses that were 
> never cut.  And as we all know, when money chases, money gets.  And - 
> guess where this new material is coming from?
>
> Kindest wishes
> Doug
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 5:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky
>
>
> I guess collecting artifacts has made me leery about fakes. Get caught 
> with one
> fake artifact and it will put your entire collection in question. It is 
> best to
> get artifacts papered and destroy any that have been "killed" by an 
> independent
> authenticator. I see Shirokovsky as being off topic since it is not a 
> meteorite
> and is was only produced in order to defraud honest collectors out of 
> their hard
> earned money.
> If you want a piece of a recycled old Ford motor block in your collection, 
> that
> is your business. To me, it is garbage and so are the people who produced 
> it!
>
> Adam
>