[meteorite-list] Who owns the meteorite?

Fri Sep 24 15:43:07 EDT 2010

I would agree 100% with the Count on this one!

I'm sick and tired of listening to the rhetoric of the naysaying jerks 
and lazy brained elitists who don't recover meteorites or would make 
them off-limits to everyone but themselves. The problem with these 
idiots are that they are selfish egotists who want to hoard the 
meteorites for museums, and MISLEAD the public into believing that's the 
way it should be by claiming that meteorite hunters are bad, and that 
they are "preserving history and culture". Their propaganda is that 
"meteorite hunters are damaging the science. Let us protect that 
science." Yet they forget that if it weren't for professional private 
sector meteorite hunters their precious collections wouldn't exist! More 
than HALF of their "fresh" meteorites were most likely recovered by 
professional private sector meteorite hunters who got there before any 
rain or weathering could take place.

Their argument is a crock! and everyone knows it, but people are afraid 
to ruffle feathers, make waves, or step on toes. "Shhhhhh..." people 
say, "...it'll go away if we don't say anything..."

Yeah, our "rights" will go away if we don't do something together, as a 
group of responsible and professional meteorite hunters, scientists, 
enthusiasts, collectors, and hobbyists.

The propaganda argument is a bogus BS misleading attempt to deflect and 
misinform the public of what professional meteorite hunters actually do, 
and completely ignores the fact that most of the meteorites that make up 
institution collections today are there BECAUSE professional meteorite 
hunters made them available!

The same people that profess Nininger was a great man, also love to surf 
on his legendary and groundbreaking science. They attach themselves to 
Nininger like leeches, and say "look at us" we love Nininger. Yet if 
they lived back in the days of Nininger, they might have condemned him 
just as they seem to be condemning modern day meteorite hunters now. 
Hypocrites all! These are most probably the same people that would have 
everything governed "by the state" and not "by the people, for the 
people". I thought this was America.

There is no meteorite law. There's only a misinterpretation of the Act 
that the BLM hangs it hat on.
There is no language anywhere (that I can find) in all the statutes, 
regulations, and law that states the Smithsonian is entitled to 
meteorites found on federal land. (it's only in on BLM sites and 
publications the BLM produces)

I stated a LONG time ago that there was a group that could be formed 
very easily that would gather together the public, scientists and the 
professional meteorite hunters in a unified association that could very 
well protect the rights we know are granted us as American citizens.

There is a happy medium agreement that can be made that will benefit 
both public science, and the private sector. SHARE! That's all that 
needs to be done. Share with the people, and do it for the people. Share 
with scientists, share with hunters, share with the public, educate and 
inform!

We either do it or we don't... Don't whine, bitch or moan about it later 
when we can't hunt if we don't do something about it now.

Unless we come together I'm afraid our laws might go the way of other 
countries who's laws restrict the recovery of meteorites, and that my 
friends will stifle the science we love so...

Regards,
Eric

On 9/24/2010 12:02 PM, countdeiro at earthlink.net wrote:
> Steve said "...it must belong to the school."
>
> I respectfully disagree with this statement and with the statement " ...it belongs to the Smithsonian."
>
> Public schools do not in themselves "own" property. The lands and improvements are typically the assets of local, or state government (i.e.. the citizens of that county, or state.) Their maintenance and operation are usually governed by an elected Board of Trustees. They, if made aware, would most probably decide the disposition of a find.
>
> Federal lands, including National Parks, Wilderness Areas, Mining Claims, Restricted Areas and lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management are subject to a hodge podge of regulations that directly, or indirectly affect the taking of meteorites. There is no "all encompassing directive that says all meteorites on all Federally held land "belongs" to the Smithsonian.
>
> Consider a " mining claim" or a "homestead" being proved up. There are many other examples...including the "issuance of a permit to hunt meteorites specifically on Federal, or State lands." Something I have personal experience with having recently joined with the permit holder to search ;ands off limits to those without a permit.
>
> Finally, in many states, Nevada being one, I have seen metorites considered minerals and as those mineral rights are with held from fee simple ownership of land. Therefore, the land owner has no right to the minerals on his own land. He must is sublect to complicated state mining and oil exploration law.
>
> This whole business is messy and arbitrary and can lead to no good. I would like the meteorite community to develop a lobbying arm to educate state and federal lawmakers and monitor and promote legislation that protects us before, not after, our activities are banned.
>
> Please spare us the arguments that it is expensive, etc. etc.
>
> Regards,
>
> Count Deiro
> IMCA 3536
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>    
>> From: Steve Dunklee<steve.dunklee at yahoo.com>
>> Sent: Sep 24, 2010 11:05 AM
>> To: almitt2 at localnet.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who owns the meteorite?
>>
>> Ownership of meteorites is pretty clear in United States law. The owner of a meteorite is the land owner. If one falls on my land it is mine. If one falls on your land it is yours. If one falls on federal land it belongs to the Smithsonian. So if one lands in a school yard it must belong to the school. Other countrys may have different law. Cheers Steve Dunklee
>>
>> On Thu Sep 23rd, 2010 12:48 AM EDT almitt2 at localnet.com wrote:
>>
>>      
>>> Hi Ron and all,
>>>
>>> If this is going to be the case, if you get a permit to hunt federal lands then you are being granted a lease to hunt and all material should belong to the finder then. Perhaps this is an interpatation of the law we can live with.
>>>
>>> --AL Mitterling
>>>
>>> Quoting R N Hartman<rhartman04 at earthlink.net>:
>>>
>>>        
>>>> So regarding the article, in essence this interpretation is saying that if you have a lease on land at which time a meteorite lands on it, you have legal rights to it.  But you must have the lease, not be wandering down a public road or across a school yard, or even being on a dry lake or the open desert.  Yes??
>>>>
>>>> Ron Hartman
>>>>          
>>>
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