[meteorite-list] OT: Dowsing is real, but exoplanets are dubious?!

[Richard Montgomery]

I think mt delete button wires are crossing.....



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 11:12 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Dowsing is real,but exoplanets are 
dubious?!


> If the devices seem to work for the Iraqi's, I can propose
> a simpler explanation for why the worthless wands do
> anything at all.
>
> What they do is make those with good reason to not
> want to be stopped and especially not to be searched
> nervous, because even the best-educated terrorist
> probably believes in these impressing-looking but
> worthless Gizmo's.
>
> And there is no cop in the world that can't "smell" a
> nervous perp. Even the worst cop can do that. Even
> if you're only nervous because you're in the hands of
> a bad cop. So the device has a "high rate" of detections
> which will include among the many false positives,
> most if not all of the true positives.
>
> So, yeah... it actually works. Dum cops and dummer
> terrorists make twitchier suspects and better detection.
>
> What a racket!
>
> I wish I'd thought of it...
>
> Lesee, 1500 ADE-651's at $16,500 each (in bulk) is
> $25,000,000. $50,000 to have the Gizmo made in
> China and shipped. Pay off the Ministry of Internal
> Security in Bagdad for the contract... How much
> does that come to?
>
> Ain't Free Enterprise great!
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb (with thanks to William of Occam)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 7:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Dowsing is real, but exoplanets are 
> dubious?!
>
>
>> Hi Mike,
>> I think the point of the article is relevant to what's being discussed 
>> here. People that know for scientific reasons that dowsing doesn't work, 
>> can't dowse because it won't work for them. Dowsing only works for the 
>> ignorant like myself and dumb construction workers and plumbers. The 
>> Iraqis believe in these devices and they work for them. And we're talking 
>> about life or death here, surely the devices work, they're staking their 
>> life on them. The experts make the exact same arguments in the article 
>> that I've heard hear. Scientific test show the devices give no better 
>> than random results, etc. etc. Everybody keeps telling them they don't 
>> work, when obviously the Iraqis know that they do work, otherwise they'd 
>> be getting blown up. Unless the Iraqis are so dumb, they're getting blown 
>> up, yet still insist on using the dowsers. If that was the case, surely 
>> the article would have reported it. This is the NY Times after all. I 
>> like at the end of the article where the naysayer can't get the dowser to 
>> work, but it works perfectly for the believer. It's like that Monty 
>> Python episode where everybody has to believe in the apartment building 
>> or it falls down. A non-believer moves in and the building starts 
>> collapse, until the believers convert him and the building goes back up. 
>> Every time he has doubts, the building starts to fall down, then he 
>> recants and the building goes back up. That's some funny stuff!
>>
>> And even though these guys are putting their lives on the line every day 
>> with their  dowsers, they of course can't pass the fraudulent Randi's 
>> impossible requirements and cash in on his stupid million dollar con.
>>
>> Click on the link for pictures of the overpriced,  phony dowsing devices 
>> that can't possibly work, yet still do
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/middleeast/04sensors.html
>>
>> BAGHDAD - Despite major bombings that have rattled the nation, and fears 
>> of rising violence as American troops withdraw, Iraq's security forces 
>> have been relying on a device to detect bombs and weapons that the United 
>> States military and technical experts say is useless.
>> Skip to next paragraph
>> Related
>> Times Topics: Iraq
>> Enlarge This Image
>>
>> Johan Spanner for The New York Times
>> The sensor device, known as the ADE 651, from $16,500 to $60,000 each. 
>> Iraq has bought more than 1,500 of the devices.
>> The small hand-held wand, with a telescopic antenna on a swivel, is being 
>> used at hundreds of checkpoints in Iraq. But the device works "on the 
>> same principle as a Ouija board" - the power of suggestion - said a 
>> retired United States Air Force officer, Lt. Col. Hal Bidlack, who 
>> described the wand as nothing more than an explosives divining rod.
>> Still, the Iraqi government has purchased more than 1,500 of the devices, 
>> known as the ADE 651, at costs from $16,500 to $60,000 each. Nearly every 
>> police checkpoint, and many Iraqi military checkpoints, have one of the 
>> devices, which are now normally used in place of physical inspections of 
>> vehicles.
>> With violence dropping in the past two years, Prime Minister Nuri Kamal 
>> al-Maliki has taken down blast walls along dozens of streets, and he 
>> contends that Iraqis will safeguard the nation as American troops leave.
>> But the recent bombings of government buildings here have underscored how 
>> precarious Iraq remains, especially with the coming parliamentary 
>> elections and the violence expected to accompany them.
>> The suicide bombers who managed to get two tons of explosives into 
>> downtown Baghdad on Oct. 25, killing 155 people and destroying three 
>> ministries, had to pass at least one checkpoint where the ADE 651 is 
>> typically deployed, judging from surveillance videos released by 
>> Baghdad's provincial governor. The American military does not use the 
>> devices. "I don't believe there's a magic wand that can detect 
>> explosives," said Maj. Gen. Richard J. Rowe Jr., who oversees Iraqi 
>> police training for the American military. "If there was, we would all be 
>> using it. I have no confidence that these work."
>> The Iraqis, however, believe passionately in them. "Whether it's magic or 
>> scientific, what I care about is it detects bombs," said Maj. Gen. Jehad 
>> al-Jabiri, head of the Ministry of the Interior's General Directorate for 
>> Combating Explosives.
>> Dale Murray, head of the National Explosive Engineering Sciences Security 
>> Center at Sandia Labs, which does testing for the Department of Defense, 
>> said the center had "tested several devices in this category, and none 
>> have ever performed better than random chance."
>> The Justice Department has warned against buying a variety of products 
>> that claim to detect explosives at a distance with a portable device. 
>> Normal remote explosives detection machinery, often employed in airports, 
>> weighs tons and costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. The ADE 651's 
>> clients are mostly in developing countries; no major country's military 
>> or police force is a customer, according to the manufacturer.
>> "I don't care about Sandia or the Department of Justice or any of them," 
>> General Jabiri said. "I know more about this issue than the Americans do. 
>> In fact, I know more about bombs than anyone in the world."
>> He attributed the decrease in bombings in Baghdad since 2007 to the use 
>> of the wands at checkpoints. American military officials credit the surge 
>> in American forces, as well as the Awakening movement, in which Iraqi 
>> insurgents turned against Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, for the decrease.
>> Aqeel al-Turaihi, the inspector general for the Ministry of the Interior, 
>> reported that the ministry bought 800 of the devices from a company 
>> called ATSC (UK) Ltd. for $32 million in 2008, and an unspecified larger 
>> quantity for $53 million. Mr. Turaihi said Iraqi officials paid up to 
>> $60,000 apiece, when the wands could be purchased for as little as 
>> $18,500. He said he had begun an investigation into the no-bid contracts 
>> with ATSC.
>> Jim McCormick, the head of ATSC, based in London, did not return calls 
>> for comment.
>> The Baghdad Operations Command announced Tuesday that it had purchased an 
>> additional 100 detection devices, but General Rowe said five to eight 
>> bomb-sniffing dogs could be purchased for $60,000, with provable results.
>> Checking cars with dogs, however, is a slow process, whereas the wands 
>> take only a few seconds per vehicle. "Can you imagine dogs at all 400 
>> checkpoints in Baghdad?" General Jabiri said. "The city would be a zoo."
>> Speed is not the only issue. Colonel Bidlack said, "When they say they 
>> are selling you something that will save your son or daughter on a 
>> patrol, they've crossed an insupportable line into moral depravity."
>> Last year, the James Randi Educational Foundation, an organization 
>> seeking to debunk claims of the paranormal, publicly offered ATSC $1 
>> million if it could pass a scientific test proving that the device could 
>> detect explosives. Mr. Randi said no one from the company had taken up 
>> the offer.
>> ATSC's promotional material claims that its device can find guns, 
>> ammunition, drugs, truffles, human bodies and even contraband ivory at 
>> distances up to a kilometer, underground, through walls, underwater or 
>> even from airplanes three miles high. The device works on "electrostatic 
>> magnetic ion attraction," ATSC says.
>> To detect materials, the operator puts an array of plastic-coated 
>> cardboard cards with bar codes into a holder connected to the wand by a 
>> cable. "It would be laughable," Colonel Bidlack said, "except someone 
>> down the street from you is counting on this to keep bombs off the 
>> streets."
>> Proponents of the wand often argue that errors stem from the human 
>> operator, who they say must be rested, with a steady pulse and body 
>> temperature, before using the device.
>> Then the operator must walk in place a few moments to "charge" the 
>> device, since it has no battery or other power source, and walk with the 
>> wand at right angles to the body. If there are explosives or drugs to the 
>> operator's left, the wand is supposed to swivel to the operator's left 
>> and point at them.
>> If, as often happens, no explosives or weapons are found, the police may 
>> blame a false positive on other things found in the car, like perfume, 
>> air fresheners or gold fillings in the driver's teeth.
>> On Tuesday, a guard and a driver for The New York Times, both licensed to 
>> carry firearms, drove through nine police checkpoints that were using the 
>> device. None of the checkpoint guards detected the two AK-47 rifles and 
>> ammunition inside the vehicle.
>> During an interview on Tuesday, General Jabiri challenged a Times 
>> reporter to test the ADE 651, placing a grenade and a machine pistol in 
>> plain view in his office. Despite two attempts, the wand did not detect 
>> the weapons when used by the reporter but did so each time it was used by 
>> a policeman.
>> "You need more training," the general said.
>> Riyadh Mohammed contributed reporting.
>> This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:
>> Correction: November 5, 2009
>> An article on Wednesday about a bomb detection device used by the Iraqi 
>> security forces that is considered useless and costly by the American 
>> military misstated the surname of the leader of ATSC (UK) Ltd., the 
>> London-based company that has sold hundreds of the devices to Iraq's 
>> Interior Ministry. He is Jim McCormick, not Mitchell.
>>
>>
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