[meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

Thu Nov 4 22:16:20 EDT 2010

I can't not say something on this.

It is ABSOLUTELY about rights *and* the law. I do *NOT* praise the BLM. 
I do however support them for their protection of *our* land. In that 
they do a good job, and I'm thankful for the agencies effort on that 
part. Aside from the infringement of the rights of the people to hunt, 
recover, keep and collect meteorites on federal land course. And I agree 
that YES the community should work with federal agencies to promote 
"SENSIBLE" regulation as long as that regulation doesn't infringe on the 
rights of the citizen to recover and collect meteorites legally on 
federal land. Just as people should follow the regulations of the land, 
those who regulate should not misinterpret a law for their own gain 
either. It goes both ways.

Their use of the 1906 Antiquities Act is a misinterpretation of a law 
that was NOT designed to protect meteorites. It was singed into law by 
President Theodore Roosevelt to protect archeological sites and 
artifacts from looters.

This law has, and is still now being used to seize meteorites found 
legally on federal land by the people. That is an unarguable fact.

Artifacts are made by humans. Period.
Meteorites are NOT artifacts
Unless formed into an artifact by a HUMAN A meteorite is just a ROCK 
(albeit an "interesting" one)
Certain Fossils are protected by specific Fossil laws
Certain Artifacts are protected by specific Artifact laws
Rocks are NOT fossils.
Fossils are rocks and there's an OBVIOUS distinction between the two.
Meteorites are rocks NOT Fossils.
Rocks are Minerals
Meteorites are Minerals
There are laws in place which govern minerals

There are no laws which govern meteorites directly. Only a 
misinterpreted law used to aquire and seize scientifically important and 
interesting "objects". Almost anything can be considered an object, and 
anyone can claim something is "interesting" scientifically. This law is 
VAGUE and hugely broad in scope with regard to meteorites. In fact it 
does not mention meteorites at all. Which is why this bogus 
interpretation infringes on the rights of the US citizen to hunt and 
recover meteorites on federal land.

Agencies, scientists, hunters, private researchers, institutions and 
collectors all, CAN work together to come to a reasonable and sensible 
cooperative arrangement.

Share! Everyone can have their fair share... Science doesn't need it 
all, the government doesn't need it all, and the hunter doesn't need it 
all.

It's like kids on a playground fighting over the ball. The biggest bully 
kids usually gets it and the teacher never sees...

I'm not exactly one for more laws or regulation, frankly I think there's 
too much and it complicates things. The solution is very simple.

Stop all the CRAP and SHARE!

Regards,
Eric

On 11/4/2010 6:18 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
> I agree that other things can be formed or made from rock material.  These are
> more than adequately covered under current law.  I also agree that it would be
> wise to work with (educate) BLM field agents in order for them to tell the
> difference between "raw" rocks from fossils and artifacts.  There is no
> distinction written in the current laws that differentiates between
> extraterrestrial or terrestrial rocks so these should be of no concern to field
> agents unless more than 250 lbs is collected. No more legislation is necessary.
> It is also equally clear that if an artifact is made from a meteorite (a type of
> rock), it should be left on the ground.  Now if vertebrate fossils were found in
> a meteorite, then maybe new laws should be written.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 6:03:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps
>
> Vertebrate fossils are also rocks.  So are petroglyphs and many other
> cultural artifacts.  Do you protest regulations prohibiting their
> collection?  I understand your frustration, but you have to keep things
> in perspective.  This is not a question of rights.  It is a question of
> regulation.  I praise BLM officials for recognizing that meteorites are
> distinct from ordinary rocks in the same way that these other materials
> are.  The community should have the goal of working with federal
> agencies to promote sensible regulations.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>    
>> And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs
>> of
>> rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against
>> the
>> laws our legislators set forth.  Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is
>> a
>> clear design on our liberty.
>>
>> ***********************************************************************************
>> *
>>
>>
>> Collecting Limits
>> Collecting rocks for landscaping and other  personal uses is allowed without a
>> permit, as long as the use is non  commercial and no mechanized equipment is
>> used (other than a car or  pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
>> your collecting 25  pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in
>> one calendar  year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected
>> without a  special permit. The material must be for personal use only and
>>      
> shall
>    
>> not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from  stockpiles is
>> not allowed.
>> **********************************************************************************
>> *
>>
>>
>>
>> Link to BLM Site:
>> http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html
>>
>>
>> Happy hunting while you still can,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps
>>
>> Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the
>> best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.
>> Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything
>> and everything they want on federal lands without regulation?  I don't
>> think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>      
>>> I agree that these heritage sites should be protected.  My only concern is
>>>        
> how
>    
>>> BLM field agents convey information.  They are public servants and should
>>>        
> tell
>    
>>> the truth.  If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
>>> instead of making things up.  I get a different message from every one I have
>>> talked to in regards to meteorite hunting.  Washington and Oregon are now
>>> definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting
>>>        
>> available.
>>      
>>> This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a
>>>        
> permit
>    
>>> and then don't issue any.
>>>
>>> This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in
>>> my
>>> ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set.  Meteorites are now
>>> considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Adam
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>        
>>      
>
>    