[meteorite-list] Is Fake Trinitite Being Sold on the Open Market?

Sat May 8 21:15:22 EDT 2010

Hi Paul,

As a collector and dealer of trinitite, I have heard this as well.
After thinking about it and discussing it with a few qualified
individuals, I came to a similar conclusion as you - that there is no
profit motive or practicality to manufacturing bogus trinitite.  For
one thing, the target demographic is a small one - people aren't
lining up around the block to buy trinitite, and when they do, it's
not as valuable as other materials which are much easier to fake.  It
would be easier and more profitable (and less hazardous) to make fake
citrine or amethyst than trinitite.

Well, my source is above reproach and this source acquired it from
Ralph Pray - the man responsible for "liberating" the vast majority of
trinitite on the market today.  Here is some information I have pulled
from various sources regarding the composition of trinitite, it's
history, and the possibility of faking it :

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If the piece is pretty and green then its activity will be very, very
low. Such pieces might never show up on a metal tubed GM counter using
an analog meter readout. You will need a mica windowed GM counter! I
have about 1000 pieces of Trinitite on hand now and am embarking on a
study of the material to some significant degree.

There are generalities related to Trinitite that I have worked out
over the last few weeks of study and working the material. Several
other folks who are trinitite experts are in total agreement with the
listing shown below.

This is not definitive as I am still running numerous radiological
survey's and other activities to put a fine point on this.

We can say the following with great confidence.

1. On all Trinitite specimens, the larger the surface area, the higher
the count. (stands to reason)
2. The more stunning and beautiful a piece is, the lower will be the
count for any giving specimen's surface area. A lovely, jade green,
glossy specimen that is uniform throughout will read very low, often
under 200-300 cpm over background
3. All counting must be done with a mica windowed GM counter to allow
even the alpha to be counted. A good digital counter should be
attached so that 10 minute counts can establish an honest background
count. The mica window must be less than 1cm from the top of the
specimen. NOTE* The underside of all specimens can read 10X to 50X
lower than the top side. The top side is the pretty, green side and is
often domed. The bottom side is always gray when properly cleaned and
rather flat with withist pebbles often enbedded in it. A 2" pancake GM
detector is almost a must have item.
4. The hottest pieces are disgustingly ugly, unappealing, and a great
diappointment to the collector of pretty mineral specimens. The hotest
pieces have their domed top sides covered by what looks like a dried
wash of mortar mix and are as gray in color as the bottom of the
piece. Sometimes a little green shows through but doesn't help the
look of the piece at all. The top side of these hot specimens can
often only be discovered by the characteristic "doming" noted above
5. A few rather hot specimens that are rather glossy and pretty
contain the gray specs all within the surface and it looks as if the
pretty green has been salted, ready for eating. However, the hottest
of the hot specimens are almost pure gray with perhaps only traces of
green.
6. All trinitite is green at the core! Surface greens range from light
green to a green so black that the green is only a trace. Most pretty
trinitite is a darker jade green in color. This is the most prized by
collectors.
7. All trinititie is broken at the edges. When viewed edge on, it
looks like a beautiful emerald crystal sponge with large air pockets
like baked bread.
8. Some rare pieces of trinitite will float! (density less than one
and a number of pieces are almost neutrally bouyant or sink slowly in
water.
9. Black inclusions are attributed to iron and steel from the
vaporized tower, while lovely brick red inclusions that can even look
ruby like in the green melt is attributed to copper from the site's
vaporized wiring and signal lines.
10. Gamma spectrograhic analysis and geiger counter surveys have shown
that only the following items can contribute to a radiological
examination in a significant way. It order of decending activity.

Americium 241 (gamma , alpha)
Cesium 137 (beta)
Baruim 137 (gamma) Cesium daughter product
Strontium 90 (beta)
Europium 152 (gamma)
Cobalt 60 (gamma)
Possible Uranium and daughter components from bomb's tamper (alpha, beta)

11. I have found that after washing trinite in a mild acid solution
and using a tooth brush to scub it, then neutralizing it in a mild
base and rinsing and drying it, NONE of the original alpha activity is
lost!! This means all surface alpha was long ago washed off in the
rain that fell between 1945 and 1948 when all the trinite that is for
sale was removed from the bomb site. There is a real fascinating story
here regarding the original surreptitious removal of all the public
domain trinitite for those who care to investigate. We have one single
man to thank for our having any trinitite at all to buy or sell.

12. Virtually no amount of cleaning of dirty trinitite will wash off
any of its radiation. This includes a toothbrush scrubbing of pieces
soaked in Oxalic acid for 20 minute and neutralized in a mild caustic
wash and then rinsed off in water. (I have measured the evaporated
residues from the acid and caustic washes used to clean up to 40
specimens at one time to find virtually no activity present)

I am investigating to see if most of the Beta activity is due to the
uranium daughter Protactinium (Pa234). After all, there was tons of U
tamper in the device.

The light grey covering of the hottest pieces may contain 90% of the
piece's activity. Without this over coating, I fear the piece might
just be another pretty piece of trinitite. We will see.

I have found that by careful counting, using my 2" mica windowed,
pancake and digital counter, lovely green specimens larger than a
quarter coin can read about 200-300 cpm above background. At the
opposite end of the spectrum a rotten, ugly, gray piece of rubble, the
size of a tiny pea, will read 4500 cpm over background. I hope to
understand this mystery before my work is over, or, at least develop a
theory.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have never heard of trinilike, but I bet you it is a poor copy that
even without a counter you can spot at a glance as fake. it would take
a mighty effort to replicate the stuff to a visual state of near
perfection. It certainly could be done, but now is not the time to see
someone do it. Currently, you can get some really nice trinitite
specimens at a high price of $6.00/gram with the norm being $5.00.
Smaller pieces and large rubble go for about $3.00/gram. Trinitite's
density is extremely low and a 2-gram sized piece is decent in size.

I had a ton of the red trinitite and still do, but it is simple rust
and easily removed with oxalic acid. It seems that Ralph Pray, the
original soldier who clandestinely stole ~1500 lbs of the material in
1947 and or Verne Byrnes, who ultimately got most all of it, kept the
stuff in a series of steel 55 gallon drums outside and water and
moisture did a number on the material through the 50's and 60's as it
was sold off into the late 80's. In these drums, the material
accumulated vast amounts of surface rust which is seen on both sides
of uncleaned pieces over the years. True red trinitite is almost like
a ruby crystalline substance or a brick red inclusion within the
material, seen most often from the sides. Real red trinitite is not
attacked at all by oxalic acid. The above is a well known piece of
history by those studying the original source of the public domain
trinitite.

Detailed report records show that the ground zero and the trinite mass
was quickly surrounded by a fence. So soon was the erection that a
number of the fence builders were exposed to 10R or more during the
effort. In 1945, site entrance was logged man by man and only badged,
specially authorized personnel were allowed within the fenced
perimeter. No one else not even guard were allowed near even the outer
fence perimeter until 1946!! The trinity site still had over 200
personnel there until late 1946. There was a 24-7 mounted guard unit
assigned to the fence perimeter until late 1946 and a daylight 10 hour
mounted perimeter guard to the fence into early 1947. By February 1947
there were no personnel remaining in the vicinty of Trinity. Spot
checks by guard units continued until 1950. At that time the site was
religated to just another part of the bombing range and was left
unguarded. It still had the high barbed wire topped perimeter fence
and fully paddlocked single gate entrance, however. It was in this
time frame that Ralph Pray in July of 1951, liberated the only known
major removal of trinitite that would find itself released completely
into the public domain.

The federal authorities learned that trinitite was being sold and hung
out around Sante-Fe rock and mineral dealers trying to locate the
source. Un-successful at their task, the government bulldozed the site
and buried, at an undisclosed location, the bulk of the remaining
material. In the 1970's a second much more thorough and detailed
sanitization to the site took place to make way for its National
Historic Monument status. The little remaining trinitite found then is
seen today on-site in a large glass and metal enclosure when the site
is visited.

--------------------------------------

Original message board link to the above quoted discussion -
http://www.fusor.net/board/download_thread.php?site=fusor&bn=fusor_neutrons&thread=1225722058

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - if anyone wants trinitite, I have the real deal :
http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/trinitite

On 5/8/10, Paul <oxytropidoceras at cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Friends,
>
> While looking at Wikipedia, I looked at the
> Wikipedia page about Trinitite at:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite
>
> This page stated:
>
> " There are many known fakes in circulation among
> collectors. [citation needed] These fakes use a variety
> of means to achieve the glassy green silica look as
> well as mild radioactivity"
>
> Is this statement true?  Are people producing fake
> trinitite? If so does anyone have any citations to
> either a published article or paper that documents
> this claim?
>
> The idea that people would go to extent of adding
> radioactive material to fake trinitite does not
> sound plausiable
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
> ______________________________________________
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-- 
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Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
http://www.galactic-stone.com
http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
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