[meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King ofAngrites"for sale -...

Becky and Kirk bandk at chorus.net
Fri Jul 23 23:46:24 EDT 2010 

Vrrrrp----WRONG----Faith is something that one accepts as the TRUTH or 
reality, but they can not PROVE it empirically.

Kirk......:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Starsinthedirt at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King 
ofAngrites"for sale -...


> Faith is the action of making your self accept  some thing you know not to
> be true.  Other wise it is just  learning.
>
> How did we get on this nonsense again?
>
> Tom
>
> In a  message dated 7/23/2010 8:22:53 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> geeg48 at msn.com  writes:
>
>
> Hi Eric,
>
> I don't want to get  drawn into another long debate, but I'd like to make 
> a
> couple of  observations.  You wrote:
>
> "Funny, I never realized there was  "proof" of what faith  believes."
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Well Eric, by definition, faith doesn't require proof, but often  times
> matters of faith have quite a bit of evidence (a type of proof) to support
> them.  I could give examples, but I would be wrong to bring them up on 
> this
> List, and if I did I would be chastised by most of the members  here.
>
> In your email, you not only accuse faith of not having any  proofs, but 
> you
> also say that it is only made up of, "conjecture and subjective
> interpretation of observation."
>
> Well Eric, to be honest, I find  that much of today's science, and the
> science of the past, is also made up of  much "conjecture and subjective
> interpretation of observation."  It's not  supposed to be like this, but 
> much of
> science has a very religious feel to  it.  Science is supposed to examine
> data, evidence and facts, and then  follow that data, evidence, facts 
> wherever
> they may lead.  Scientists are  supposed to have completely open minds. 
> They
> are not supposed to have *any  agendas*.  Unfortunately, all too many
> scientists do have agendas  (presuppositions).  They view the evidence 
> through
> their own biased  lenses.  They view the evidence through their own type 
> of
> "faith  lense".
>
> Mark wrote the following to you, "science has a lot more  'faith' to it
> than most people realise!"
>
> I agree with him, and I  think Mark Twain would also agree with him.
>
>
> With  respect,
>
> Greg Lindh
>
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 23 Jul  2010 01:00:40 -0700
>> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
>> To:  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its  official! NWA 6291 "The King
> ofAngrites" for sale -...
>>
>> Funny, I  never realized there was "proof" of what faith believes. Only
>>  conjecture and subjective interpretation of observation.
>>
>>  Eric
>>
>>
>> On 7/23/2010 12:52 AM, Mark Ford  wrote:
>>> Good quote.
>>>
>>> I also  like:
>>>
>>> "Science is almost the same as faith, but just  sometimes, once in a
>>> while, the level of required proof is taken up  a notch"
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>> From:  meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>  [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of  GREG
>>> LINDH
>>> Sent: 23 July 2010 04:31
>>> To:  gmhupe at htn.net
>>> Cc: meteorite-list
>>> Subject: Re:  [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King
>>> ofAngrites" for  sale -...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello  Greg,
>>>
>>> I've always loved science, but I do think that  some in the scientific
>>> community tend to stretch things a bit thin  sometimes. All kinds of
>>> theories about all kinds of things are  thrown around with little to
>>> support them. This reminds me of a  quote by Mark Twain. The quote
>>> follows:
>>>
>>>  "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such
>>>  wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of
>>>  fact."
>>>
>>> Something to think  about....
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg  Lindh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: gmhupe at htn.net
>>>> To:  DRose at emersonhosp.org
>>>> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:51:24  -0400
>>>> CC: jgrossman at usgs.gov;  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re:  [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>>
>>> Angrites" for sale -...
>>>
>>>> Hello  everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Isn't 'science' just that,  "Science"... Ever evolving as ground truth
>>>> comes in? Without  open minds and hard work by many dedicated
>>>> individuals,  'science' would not get very far, especially in the world
>>>>
>>>
>>>> of meteortitics! Much of the initial work and/or  thoughts are educated
>>>>
>>>
>>>> suggestions  which are meant to excite others in rational and sometimes
>>>>
>>>
>>>> heated discussions, no matter what scientific  focus is being
>>>> discussed. I won't even bring up the evolution  talks of the past...
>>>>
>>>> Best  Regards,
>>>> Greg Hupe
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 22,  2010, at 8:00 AM, "Rose, David MD"<DRose at emersonhosp.org>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Jeff  completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And
>>>>> even when  the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is
>>>>> rock  solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and
>>>>>  refinement.
>>>>>
>>>>>  David
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original  Message-----
>>>>> From:  meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com  [mailto:meteorite-
>>>>> list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On  Behalf Of Jeff Grossman
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40  AM
>>>>> To:  meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re:  [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>>>  Angrites" for sale -...
>>>>>
>>>>> Yikes! Abstracts  to meetings are not peer reviewed!
>>>>>
>>>>>  jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/21/2010  10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Jason  and List,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do not refute  Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer
>>>>>> reviewed  and
>>>>>> contains several errors according to the classifying  scientists. I
>>>>>> asked
>>>>>> scientists  about the article and they stated, it is obvious that
>>>>>>  she didn't read
>>>>>> the original peer reviewed abstract  carefully, even mistaking the
>>>>>> type  of
>>>>>> petrology that was discussed using formulas that  simply do not
>>>>>> apply to the
>>>>>>  texture NWA 2999 exhibits.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There  were several prestigious coauthors listed in the  original
>>>>>> paper; Unique
>>>>>> Angrite  NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From  Mercury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who am I to argue with  the world's best? I will keep an open mind
>>>>>> and hope  for
>>>>>> some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once  and for all.
>>>>>> I think the
>>>>>> authors  were making a point of having an open mind and that the
>>>>>>  subject should
>>>>>> be debated possibly stimulated more  scientific interest in
>>>>>> Angrites. It took  a
>>>>>> long time to win over the scientific community that  some of these
>>>>>> meteorites
>>>>>> were  actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now  nobody
>>>>>> argues about
>>>>>> the  Shergottite parent body any  more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best  Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Adam
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