[meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds

Sun Dec 19 07:44:18 EST 2010

There are several issues and a misconception here.

Misconception: The Nomenclature Committee (NomCom) does not change the 
names of meteorites once they are accepted, except in extraordinary 
circumstances (e.g., the Gao/Guenie nomenclatural nightmare).  To do so 
would cause endless confusion.  All of the Nova meteorites were named 
that way when they were initially published in the Bulletin.

The "Sahara" series, which were collected and so-named by the Labenne 
family, predates the "NWA" series by several years.  In the late 1997, 
the Sahara meteorites were being sold under this name, several groups of 
scientists wanted to publish on them, and the NomCom had to figure out 
what to do about their names.  The choices were to accept these names, 
convince the Labennes to rename them, or to rename them ourselves for 
the official announcement.  For several reasons, Sahara was accepted.  
First, the names were already coming into widespread use, and renaming 
them would cause a mess.  Second, it was understood that the coordinates 
would be released, perhaps in five years, once the area was hunted out 
(this never happened, but I still hope it will).

The vote to establish the NWA series came in 2000, when it became clear 
that the Saharan nomenclature problem was growing in magnitude.  It 
seems possible that, had the Labenne meteorites appeared after this 
date, NomCom would have insisted that they all be called NWA.  But 
probably not:  we thought that Tunisia, eastern Algeria, Niger, and 
Libya were all possible collection areas, and these are not in the NWA 
area, which is defined as "Morocco and adjacent parts of the surrounding 
countries."

Given all of this, probably the ideal names for the Labenne meteorites 
would have been Sahara 001 - Sahara xxx, but what was done was done.

Jeff

On 12/18/2010 2:25 PM, Greg Catterton wrote:
> Many will provide false information or not any at all to keep the location secret. There is a discussion elsewhere currently about a finder lying about the location to secure the material available.
>
> Algeria has laws preventing the export of meteorites, yet there are new ones coming out everyday. Even recent Lunars from there are accepted and sold. All one has to do is simply say NWA.
>
> Berduc was the same way, many were transported outside the country and claimed to have been found elsewhere.
>
> I have seen many others questioned about locations and even know of one person who has outright lied about where a stone was recovered to keep from paying the land owner the share agreed on and created a laughable story of the find that has been published with so many flaws, it looks like a scam ad on ebay. I bet some of you have a piece of it in your collection and dont even know the whole story behind it!
>
> I think it happens more then we would really want to know.
>
> Greg Catterton
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA member 4682
> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites
>
>
> --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Michael Gilmer<meteoritemike at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> From: Michael Gilmer<meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 1:51 PM
>> Hi Listees,
>>
>> I have a quick question for the group and maybe someone
>> here can shed
>> some light on this subject....
>>
>> Meteorites that do not have find coordinates or have
>> falsified find
>> coordinates are typically given the "Nova" designation by
>> NonCom or if
>> they are from Northwest Africa, they are given the "NWA"
>> designation.
>> In a handful of cases, a named meteorite was later changed
>> to a "Nova"
>> because it was discovered that the find coordinates were
>> incorrect or
>> dubious.
>>
>> So, why after all of these years does the Sahara xxxxx
>> finds (mostly
>> Labenne finds) are not referred to as "NWA" or
>> "Nova"?  It is
>> well-known that the find coordinates on the many of these
>> Labenne
>> Sahara finds are falsified, which has hurt science and the
>> provenance
>> of the specimens.  To this day, over a decade later,
>> the true find
>> coordinates of these specimens have not been revealed and
>> probably
>> will never be revealed.
>>
>> Can someone explain the double-standard at work here? 
>> Is it because
>> of the pioneering work and otherwise-respectable work that
>> the
>> Labennes have done - despite the falsification of the find
>> locations?
>> Why do these Sahara finds get special treatment, while
>> other finds
>> with dubious locations are lumped under "NWA" or "Nova" ?
>>
>> I realize the NWA designation did not exist when the Sahara
>> finds were
>> accepted by NonCom, but shouldn't they now receive the
>> Nova
>> designation?  In fact, the NWA designation was
>> created, in part, due
>> to the confusion created by the Sahara finds.  So why
>> do they still
>> get a special place in nomenclature after all of this
>> time?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone&  Ironworks Meteorites
>>
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
>> Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com
>> EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>