[meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)

Meteorites USA eric at meteoritesusa.com
Mon Sep 28 05:01:03 EDT 2009 

Hi Doug, List,

Respectfully I disagree with the statement, though only somewhat...

"...For those complaining about Watchers being useless to Sellers, check 
your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS, not Sellers. It 
is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers..."

Not really what I meant... I suspect "watching" (when referring to 
sellers) doesn't benefit buyers at all. What I'm referring to is not the 
buyers "My Ebay" section. I'm referring to the number of watchers that 
is displayed in the sellers "My Ebay" section. The buyer cannot see this 
number, though they need not see it at all to watch an item. I 
understand the reason behind watchers watching and I use it to watch my 
competition too as do most sellers. Please explain to me though, what 
use the number of watchers is to the seller other than to show how many 
people are "thinking" about buying or watching their competition without 
also giving the seller the opportunity to contact the watcher with an offer.

I agree with you 100% on your description of the proverbial monopolistic 
mass that is Ebay. There does need to be a free, or nearly free system 
created to compete with Ebay. They are ripe for a competitor.

Craigslist was the closest and still does tear away at some of Ebay's 
market share. But wait, doesn't Ebay now own 25% of Craigslist? Yup! 
They sure do... Some unknown shareholder of Craigslist sold Ebay a lions 
share of the company. What better way to defeat your enemy than to know 
your enemy from the inside out. Then within a short period of time Ebay 
creates Kijiji... A free worldwide classifieds ads website. Imagine 
that... ;) lol

Hmmm... Ebay also owns it's own payment getway company Paypal, they own 
25% of their biggest online competitor, and they force sellers to use 
their own gateway thereby increasing sellers costs! Don't people see a 
problem with this?

Buyers should be pissed about this too. Why? Because of what happens 
when sellers incur more costs. They raise prices to compensate! This in 
turn not only allows Ebay to earn even more from final value fees, but 
it cost the buyers money too. Though in an indirect way.

How much? Paypal charges from 1.9% to 2.9% processing fee plus a .30 
charge per transaction. We have hundreds of transactions in a busy month 
and though we are Powersellers there are many people who sell much more 
than us. Some Ebay sellers have 100's of thousands of feedback and 
transactions, most of which go through Paypal now that Ebay requires all 
sellers to accept Paypal.

2.9% doesn't sound like much does it? Let's put that number into 
perspective.

Ebay processes millions of transactions per day and receives millions of 
payments through their Paypal service each day.

Even if there's only $1 Million dollars worth of transactions per day 
(there really is much more that that), that equates to $29,000 in fees 
that SELLERS have to pay each day.

Paypal fees collected by total sales per day:
(not counting the .30 per transaction charge)

$2 Million in transactions = $58K fees
$3 Million in transactions = $87K fees
$4 Million in transactions = $116K fees
$5 Million in transactions = $145K fees
PER DAY!!!

$2 Million in transactions = $58K fees x 365 Days = $21,170,000.00 yr
$3 Million in transactions = $87K fees x 365 Days = $31,755,000.00 yr
$4 Million in transactions = $116K fees x 365 Days = $42,340,000.00 yr
$5 Million in transactions = $145K fees x 365 Days = $52,925,000.00 yr

I don't know about you, but I think that's a whole lot of money! And 
buyers are paying for it through higher prices charged by sellers!

Are we seeing a pattern here? Ebay is perhaps the biggest monopoly 
online right now, and the only thing that will change it from becoming 
bigger is to create something they can't compete with. Craigslist had 
it, then they sold 25% of their company (which by the way only employs 
about 30 people or so) for an undisclosed amount of money and keeps the 
shareholder secret...

How this email turned into an Ebay rant I don't really know, but buyers, 
you should really think twice before buying on Ebay, considering Ebay is 
raising prices indirectly and you're paying for it! Their practices are 
so blatantly unethical it's ridiculous but we forget about it because of 
the great deals and excitement of the auction atmosphere.

You know what, there are a lot better deals on Craigslist! Why do you 
think Ebay bought 25% of the company? You think it's just because they 
like their business, or they want to be friends? Ebay is run by sharks, 
sharks that eat money for breakfast. They drink melted gold from 
platinum goblets and smile their diamond smiles all the while dreaming 
up new ways to drain sellers of their hard earned money through endless 
fee increases and unfair and unethical business practices. Buyers you 
pay for it too whether you realize it or not.

Regards,
Eric




Mexicodoug wrote:
> "Or...... they are just saving up money from cashing in all their 
> empty beer cans. Case in Point........ Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now 
> for $20- and I have 9 of the left. It has 3 watchers: BTW the auction 
> has had only 25 hits since I loaded it !"
>
> Hi Jim
>
> You're right: that is a case-in-point. But if Jughaid is saving 
> aluminum cans to cash in, he's likely to be a way more decisive buyer 
> than what you've described - the can collectors get my respects for 
> being hard working and thanks for cleaning up the environment.
>
> I would say with 99% certainty that these case-in-point "The Watchers" 
> are your direct competitors on the stamps. I'd also say with 95% 
> certainty that you already knew that ... and just posted to let them 
> know they are ubiquitously annoying Taters. And with 75% certainty you 
> could guess exactly who the young 'uns are !
>
> The Sikhote-Alin stamps you are selling are actually really cool and 
> the brochure that comes with them adds a lot of value IMO. But while 
> browsing some of your other auctions, I think the exquisitely 
> patterned Esquel slice among others is blinding us to the facts of 
> life on eBay. So why even take the time to list minor items if other 
> stuff you have is leagues above them - everyone has their needs and 
> priorities ...
>
> Rant: eBay is a cruel mutation of a classified ad, where eBay Inc. 
> learned to be unethical and call it an "auction" so they can fool
>
> people into taking a percent of the sale, rather than a simple 
> insertion fee for screwing the seller (since when did newspapers worry 
> about the final sale price - printing costs are the same).
>
> In fact eBay is not an auction in the sense of Blood's "English 
> Auction" at all, since there are no auctioneers doing any work or 
> having any responsibility to Sellers, especially busting their butt 
> promoting the larger items to earn their fees; An auctioneer for the 
> Seller is typically under a consignment relationship - contradicting 
> eBay's case. For those complaining about Watchers being useless to 
> Sellers, check your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS, 
> not Sellers. It is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers.
>
> In a real auction, it may well be unethical to start the bidding and 
> then pull the item. But in a classified ad, the Seller has no 
> obligation to sell the item: no surprise - this is eBay, love it or 
> leave it - the Seller actually has no obligation (bids or not: not 
> something in anyone's interests to publicize) to sell and like the 
> newspaper could care less what happens: eBay.
>
> So actually the power of the Seller is the power to sell only when 
> convenient, and the disadvantage of the Buyer is that eBay commits him 
> to pay unless the Seller allows the contrary. If you look at eBay in 
> these terms, the protections need to be structured around the buyer. 
> Whatever your opinion,20it is wrong to confuse eBay with most common 
> auctions just because they call them "auctions". During (live) 
> "English auctions", the auction most of us assume when hearing of "an 
> auction", there is no "sniping", and other eBay self-crafted academic 
> auction crap, the auctioneer simply starts do I hear.... do I hear.... 
> do I hear.... once ... twice .... sold cycles until he is satisfied 
> everyone had plenty of time to bid and works for the benefit of the 
> Seller.
>
> Now I won't get too started on why government should regulate eBay's 
> monopolistic and bloated fees just as they regulate pawn shops gouging 
> and credit interest rates for consumer protection - it makes sense 
> until eBay is forced to be broken up just like AT&T was: to everyone's 
> benefit, it is too much power in the hands of two few billionaires 
> suckling their cash cow on our backs for too long. What we need is a 
> Linux version of eBay linking many independent auction sites in a 
> Bit-torrent fashion ... where independent escrow companies have equal 
> access to process buyer commitments. That would introduce the 
> competition where it is needed and online selling fees will plummet in 
> consumers favor and finish eBay as effectively as AOL died.
>
> http://joshreads.com/images/08/12/i081223bgss.jpg
> (meteorite impacts?)
>
> Best wishes,
> Doug
>
> PS - Everyone could humor Jim by watching this auction 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267 !
>
> PPS - Mike Miller'
> s point about "spousal" consent was hilariously true ... (Loweezy 
> could spend hours gossiping with Elviney: Has any woman on the list 
> -or in the known universe- ever had her husband deny permission when 
> she wanted to buy herself a meteorite?)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
> Or......  they are just saving up money from cashing in all their 
> empty beer cans.
>
> Case in Point........  Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20- and I 
> have 9 of the left.  It has 3 watchers:  BTW the auction has had 
> only 25 hits since I loaded it !
>
> Â http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267
>
> Jim Strope
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> To: nwa482 at comcast.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:12:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Â Time to get back to work
>
> "I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "
>
> Hello Jim !
>
> Maybe the IRS.
>
> $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the
> collectibles category.
>
> Maybe they debate between (grocery=2
> 0shopping and cooking a romantic home
> cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD
> $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't
> get lost.
>
> Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other
> auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>
> Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is
> waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.
>
> Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of
> your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item
> is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at
> $20 !
>
> My money is on the latter,
>
> Kindest wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
>
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I
> have
> started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings
> with
> some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
> Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie,
> Gibeon,
> Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com 
>
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> it
> em,
> $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20-
> and not
> an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid
> at the
> last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item
> list with
> this kind of cheap item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on
> adding
> more in the next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
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