[meteorite-list] Meteorite Self-Pairing = No-No!

Thu Nov 12 17:33:34 EST 2009

Hello Carl and List,

Carl brought up some excellent questions. To answer as briefly as possible, 
but without a single word reply, I will try to explain a little bit of my 
dislikes with self pairing to Classified material.

I have had many different meteorites classified over the years. I typically 
wait quite a bit of time to pass before I offer these publicly, two years in 
the case of my new Lunar, NWA 4932, which I just announced this week. I wait 
for a couple reasons:
1) To let the different investigating scientists glean as much possible 
information about the meteorite in order to offer an accurately classified 
meteorite.
2) Wait and see if any more material surfaces to try and get an accurate 
Total Known Weight (TKW).

It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start to 
be offered by different Moroccan stone traders. On occasion this may be 
accurate, but MOST of the time it is not the case! You can not say just from 
photos if something is "paired". A recent example is when I announced a new 
diogenite, my Moroccan partner later sent me "guaranteed pairings" to this. 
After receiving four stones, it was clear that three of the four were NOT 
paired, and were something else. To make sure of this, I cut all four stones 
and then sent them to the lab to be examined, at MY cost! One turned out to 
be paired, the other three were not, they were; one terrestrial rock and the 
other two were rotten chondrites. This just goes to show that visual 
pairings are to be avoided.

It is becoming more of a problem at the different Shows. Examples are:
1) NWA 2995, a classified lunar. Many "self pairings" hit the scene, some 
were actually paired after scientific examination, but even more were not 
lunar! In fact, I purchased one of these that "Looked" like 2995. After 
cutting it and sending the type sample in for classification to get my own 
NWA number as a pairing to 2995, I was informed that it was NOT a lunar, but 
a Maskelynite-rich Eucrite, cool in itself, but NOT lunar. More of these 
stones became available by the Moroccans and "Guaranteed" as Lunar of 2995. 
I was sent samples of several of these that turned out NOT to be lunar and I 
then informed these different Moroccans. I learned later that they sold 
these as TRUE LUNAR stones and sadly I found out that several friends got 
screwed by these Moroccans who were informed that those particular stones 
were NOT lunar. They simply did not care and went to an unsuspecting victim. 
This is one of the things that upsets me the most.
2) The Moroccans who offer classified material at the shows, stating, "These 
stones are paired to NWAxxxx". I have heard of many examples of this 
practice, and in many cases collectors are holding unclassified material 
which may, or may not even be meteorites!
3) Even if material offered is indeed the same as what they claim, the 
material still needs to be verified and the weight entered to keep the 
Official Total Known Weight (TKW) accurate. This is another pet peeve of 
mine. I often wonder why I should give up "another" 20 grams (or 20%) of a 
planetary meteorite when the original type sample should be plenty. Oh yah, 
I like to make sure what I offer is AUTHENTIC and to keep the TKW accurate 
as possible!

These are a few of the issues that set me off. I am very passionate about 
what I do and try to keep it as accurate as possible. When games and fraud 
is perpetrated by those who do not care about the science or collectors, I 
get upset and tend to be vocal.

If I seem too quick to reply, or type a single word in haste or anger, I 
apologize to all who are offended by my posts. I think it is important to 
keep it real, and really keep it honest and accurate!

I believe it is part of my responsibility to keep it real and to give notice 
to those who do not!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments from Canada 
toMorocco?

>
> Hi Greg, Aziz, All,
>
>
> I would like to thank Aziz and others on their informative input on buying 
> meteorites from Morocco.
>
> I'm confused about this pairing of meteorites and I think Greg touched on 
> this briefly. This has been bugging me since I started collecting. I don't 
> want to start a flame war so please, PLEASE think twice before hitting the 
> send key on this reply.
>
> Take for example a dealer/collector buys a 300g stone from Morocco, gets 
> it classified and it is named NWA 9999, a very, very rare Diogenite. 
> Later, more stones are found and it sure looks like NWA 9999. I understand 
> the original 300g stone is NWA 9999 but the others found later should be 
> considered paired unless it has the lab work and documents to back it up.
>
> Using this logic, all subsequent finds of Holbrook, Franconia, Gold 
> Basin,...etc. should be considered pairings and not in fact Holbrook, 
> Franconia, Gold Basin? Is this because these meteorites have established 
> strewn fields, respectively, but the NWA meteorites do not? How can anyone 
> be sure a stray meteorite has not fallen and was collected in these U.S. 
> strewn fields without cutting it or lab work done on each? Perhaps an 
> experienced meteorite hunter would know the difference but what of a 
> novice like myself?
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> Greg wrote:
>>"...Treat the meteorites right; as in, accuracy of type, TKW, 
>>self-pairings
> (fraud), etc., and you will not have problems!!!"...
>
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