[meteorite-list] Carancas Bull

Wed Mar 11 07:52:46 EDT 2009

Hiya,

My point was that an impact/blast that results in a mortality  
producing shock wave is universally defined as an impact/blast  
casualty.   Your attempt to pull shock waves out of the equation in an  
assessment of an impact/blast is akin to taking water out the equation  
in a drowning.

Moving on, I feel I should clarify my position.  I never liked the  
term "hammer"---it feels so comic strip-y---and agree it's overused.   
I agree with Anne's orthodoxy on the application of the term---except  
as it pertains to the point addressed above.

All best / d,

On Mar 11, 2009, at 6:48 AM, Walter Branch wrote:

> Hi Darryl,
>
> Okay, but...
>
>> or scholarly assessment---
>
> That's what I assumed we are attempting.  This list is for meteorite  
> enthusiasts, not journalism enthusiasts.
>
> I propose we stick to discussing meteorites, not bomb blasts.
>
> -Walter
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com>
> To: "Walter Branch" <waltbranch at bellsouth.net>
> Cc: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation  
> from Dave
>
>
>
>
> Hi Walter!
>
> With all respect....
>
> In ANY report---except where there exist the specificity of a coroner
> or scholarly assessment---bomb victims are bomb victims.
>
> There is never differentiation between those killed by blast injury,
> penetrating wounds, blunt trauma or smoke/fire.  In fact the foregoing
> types of injury are correctly referred to as primary, secondary,
> tertiary and miscellaneous BLAST INJURIES.  Primary blast injury is
> specifically a rapid increase in air pressure--a shock wave.
>
> If the bull was killed by a shock wave created by an impact---it was
> killed by the impact.
>
> And that's no bull....
>
> ;-)
>
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Walter Branch wrote:
>
>> Hello Darryl,
>>
>>> is a bombing victim killed by a bomb-produced shock
>>> wave not killed by the bomb?
>>
>> No.  They would killed by the shock wave.
>>
>> If dirt kicked up by a meteorite hits a person, is said meteorite   
>> then a "hammer?"  No.
>>
>> Like all analogies, it eventually breaks down.
>>
>> It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end -  
>> Douglas Adams.
>>
>> -Walter Branch
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darryl Pitt" <darryl at dof3.com>
>> To: "Impactika" <impactika at aol.com>
>> Cc: <IMCA at imcamail.de>; "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite- 
>> martin.de>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: WG: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation from Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> (deep breath)
>>
>> is a bombing victim killed by a bomb-produced shock wave not killed  
>> by
>> the bomb?
>>
>>
>>
>> hi anne!  ;-)
>>
>>
>> On Mar 10, 2009, at 6:43 PM, Impactika wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Dave, and all,
>>>
>>> I submit another example to you:  Carancas, since it has been    
>>> discussed on the other List.
>>>
>>> In my personal opinion, only one fragment of the Carancas   
>>> meteorite would qualify as a hammer: the fragment that hit the   
>>> house on the picture, but it would have to be properly  
>>> documented,  with proof  that this specific fragment, and not  
>>> another one, or a  piece of  ejecta, is the actual fragment that  
>>> damaged this roof.   Any other  fragment is just that: a fragment  
>>> of the Carancas  meteorite. As for  the animals, they might have  
>>> been hit by a shock  wave, not by a  fragment of the meteorite.
>>>
>>> With the same logic, a few of the Park Forest fragments can   
>>> qualify  as hammers, I am talking about the actual fragments that   
>>> hit cars,  roofs, .... and only those. And again, only with  
>>> proper  verifiable documentation. All other pieces of Park Forest  
>>> are just  that: pieces  of the Park Forest meteorite.
>>>
>>> That still leaves Peekskill and Claxton as hammer meteorites,   
>>> since they are single stones, and witnessed, documented falls.
>>>
>>> As for me, as a dealer, I will not use the term hammer on my   
>>> website unless I have absolute proof and documentation that a   
>>> certain  specimen did hit a human, animal, or something man-made   
>>> (roads,  trees, fields.... don't count!).
>>>
>>> But that is my opinion.
>>> Any others?
>>>
>>> Anne Black
>>> IMCA - #2356
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 03/10/09 09:16:39 Mountain Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de 
>>>  writes:
>>> Von: dave at fallingrocks.com [mailto:dave at fallingrocks.com]
>>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. März 2009 15:47
>>> An: Martin Altmann
>>> Betreff: RE: AW: [IMCA] Hammers & Orientation
>>>
>>> Hi, Martin,
>>>
>>> Please forward this quick note back to the IMCA list; I'm on a web  
>>> interface and can't respond to the list from here...thanks:
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> The problem, at least in my view, with hammers is the fact that   
>>> they are most appreciated by the least meteorite-savvy buyers.    
>>> These  newbie collectors are most exposed to paying a ridiculous   
>>> price  because a piece of, say, Thuathe was found in the roof of  
>>> a  hut --  yet the piece they're contemplating purchase around  
>>> was  picked up in  a field two miles away. Thuathe might not be  
>>> the best  example, as  it's a killer meteorite in its own right.   
>>> Your  example of Gao- Guenie, though by no means reflected in  
>>> market  pricing (yet,  anyway), might be better.
>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . .
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> IMCA #5967
>>>
>>> www.fallingrocks.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Worried about job security? Check out the 5 safest jobs in a    
>>> recession.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IMCA mailing list
>>> IMCA at imcamail.de
>>> http://lists.imcamail.de/mailman/listinfo/imca
>>
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