[meteorite-list] Kem-Kem was never the generic for NWA
Gary Fujihara
fujmon at mac.com
Fri Aug 14 15:14:13 EDT 2009
Aloha Jeff and Zelimir,
Mahalo for the history lesson on Kem Kem. It was both informative and
interesting, and provides insight into meteorite hunting in pre-NWA
days.
gary
On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:09 AM, Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> To bring a little more confusion to the "Kem-Kem issue", here is
> another story.
>
> It deals with a meteorite found in South Morocco in 1998 (31°7'N /
> 5°11'W), thus at a time the generic NWA designation did not exist.
>
> That one stone weighing 1088 g was found by Michel Franco and, after
> analysis, the remaining mass of 942.5 g of that L6 was offered for
> sale (if I remember well at the Ste Marie-aux-Mines mineral show in
> 1999, where I purchased it).
>
> Michel told me that although fully analyzed at Open University, it
> had not yet a name but that he proposed "Kem Kem"....
>
> I don't know whether it was the first time that such name was
> proposed but Michel was very confident it will be accepted by the
> Nom. Com. so, in the meantime, I catalogued it in my collection
> using "Kem-Mem" as provisional name.
>
> Months or even years later, Michel told me that it eventually
> received another "generic" name, thus "NWA 052" (the NWA
> nomenclature just appeared in the Bulletins).
> I then changed the name but added "Kem-Lem" as SYNONYM.
>
> If you go to the Met Bull database, you will see that they now
> mention "Kem-Kem" as ORIGIN or PSEUDONYM for NWA 052, which seemed
> logical.
>
> Now after the debate we had these days and the clearings brought by
> Jeff, it is obvious that for my NWA 052, "Kem-Kem" is the origin,
> not a synonym nor pseudo.
>
> (I note that the same mention "origin or pseudonym: "Kem-Kem" is
> mentioned for NWA 753 (R3.9) found years after and this might also
> probably be the case for some other NWA's (I didn't check), which is
> in line with the whole issue cleared by Jeff.
>
> I will (just personally) retain "Kem-Kem" as synonym of my NWA 052
> for "historical purposes", supposing this was the first NWA
> oringinating from the vast Kem-Kem region (something I am far from
> being sure - I did not check).
>
> I wish to thank once again Jeff for his statements, that are of real
> importance.
>
> My best,
>
> Zelimir
>
> PS: if anybody is interested, I can provide a list giving all the
> synonyms of the meteorites sitting in my collection, should this be
> of some help or general interest for someone.
>
>
>
> Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> a écrit :
>
>> The Kem Kem meteorites from Casper were a trigger for the NomCom
>> approving the NWA designation, which was my coinage in January
>> 2000. But to really understand the history, you need to go back a
>> few years earlier, to El Hammami (aka Hamada du Draa), which was
>> the first case for which the NomCom became aware that meteorites
>> were being transported and sold in this region. With this history,
>> plus a series of inquiries from other dealers about the Kem Kem
>> meteorites, compounded by our inability to learn many details about
>> those meteorites from Casper, we needed to take action of some
>> kind. We decided on a generic term, Northwest Africa, that could
>> be applied as a "tracking" label to all stones, even ones that had
>> not been classified, so that individual meteorites would not be
>> divided and sold under multiple names. We also had no ability to
>> investigate multiple vague or anonymous claims about meteorite
>> provenance in the region. Thus it was decided that all of these
>> meteorites would be named NWA, even those that had been
>> classified. I'm not sure what ever happened to the Kem Kems that
>> triggered the whole thing. Since I don't think Casper ever
>> numbered them, there were no synonyms to publish, assuming they
>> eventually became NWAs.
>>
>> jeff
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> At 01:02 AM 8/10/2009, Jason Utas wrote:
>>> Dirk, Brian, All,
>>> This came up on the list a while back; from what I understood,
>>> Casper
>>> sold those as well as a number of other stones under that name
>>> around
>>> that time, and only classified one stone, before grouping a number
>>> of
>>> similar-looking meteorites together under that name (I believe the
>>> mentality was that of the meteorite-world pior to the NWA rush,
>>> where
>>> not every piece had to be classified to verify its composition).
>>> And
>>> while not every piece does have to be classified in many cases,
>>> this,
>>> I believe, was a situation in which things were not made certain. I
>>> never got the catalog at the time, bit I do recall there being some
>>> consternation as meteorites were being misclassified/misnamed.
>>> Hence the confusion, as the name applies to a number of late 1990's
>>> NWA meteorites which came out of the area via Casper. I might only
>>> call it a generic name at this point because it is a name that
>>> applies
>>> to a number of petrographically distinct meteorites. Single name,
>>> unknown number of meteorites. I don't know if it quite fits the
>>> definition of the word "generic," but if it doesn't, it's not far
>>> off.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 9:52 PM, drtanuki<drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Brian and List,
>>>> Brian your are incorrect in your history lesson.
>>>> Michael Casper announced in his December 1999 catalogue that "a
>>>> new find out of Morocco- Kem-Kem" was "Found in August, 1999.
>>>> Stone. Classification pending. Kem Kem, Dahara, Morocco".
>>>> Casper`s catalogue lists:
>>>> 22.4g @ $44.80;
>>>> 26.9g@ $53.80
>>>> 31.5g@ $63.00
>>>> 33.5g@ $67.00
>>>> 41.0g@ $82.00
>>>> 46.8g@ $93.60
>>>> 53.2g@ $106.40
>>>> 58.6g@ $117.20
>>>> 67.4g@ $134.80
>>>> 70.0g@ $140.00
>>>> 83.1g@ $166.20
>>>> 114.9g@ $229.80
>>>> 153.6g@ $307.20
>>>>
>>>> In the same catalogue, he (Casper) has a multi-kilo piece
>>>> photographed, which I purchased. Kem-Kem was NOT a catch-all
>>>> term for the meteorites of NWA (Moroc/Algeria) at the time, as
>>>> you wrote.
>>>>
>>>> So please do not confuse the messy history of the NWAs by
>>>> INCORRECTLY calling Kem-Kem the orginal generic name before NWAs.
>>>>
>>>> I was in Morocco in December 2000- January 2001 for six weeks and
>>>> at Kem-Kem prior/during the sale of NWA482 in the year of the
>>>> planetary alignment and eclipse... there were UK-Euro-hippies by
>>>> the busloads for the huge festival and arrested development.
>>>> The only great "hunter" that I ran into while I was there was
>>>> Dean Bessey in his Fiat at Merzouga (he dismounted his for
>>>> shade); prior to Bessey Specks perhaps not?
>>>>
>>>> Missed seeing Mike Farmer, Strope and others; but, I did spot a
>>>> mad German or Austrian at the petrol stop during the heat of the
>>>> day. Also missed the Great Habibi!
>>>>
>>>> When in Erfoud don`t miss out on the daily variety of Targine
>>>> beef, mutton or chicken and 30 glasses of mint tea.
>>>>
>>>> At the end of six weeks of wearing Berber you will be blue...Idir
>>>> met Idir et Kem-Kem! Truly an awesome experience to be at Kem-
>>>> Kem at SunSet on top of a tall hill and watch the winter shadows
>>>> fall.
>>>>
>>>> Forget the Berber Shave and stick with Burma Shave if you are
>>>> searchingforfun.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kem Kem, the original generic name
>>>>> before NWAs, Northwest African meteorites
>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:02 PM
>>>>> Here is a link to my 19.7 gram Kem
>>>>> Kem meteorite specimen, originally from Planet Brey
>>>>> meteorites about 9-10 years ago. Kem Kem was the name that
>>>>> was used approximately between 1999-2001, I was told, from
>>>>> our fellow history buffs on the list and other IMCA members
>>>>> for what we now call "NWAs" "Northwest African" meteorites.
>>>>>
>>>>> I added a photo of the original COA/card from Planet Brey
>>>>> just now in this auction.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/KEM-KEM-Meteorite-19-7g-IMCA-COA-Unclass-Probably-H5_W0QQitemZ270440268847QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef77f042f&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, and clear happy meteorite filled skies tonight!
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
>>>>> IMCA # 6387
>>>>>
>>>>> searchingforfun is my
>>>>> ebay User ID
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
>> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
>> 954 National Center
>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>
>>
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>
>
>
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Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net
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