[meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

[MeteorHntr at aol.com]

Dave (and list),
 
I will address the things point by point:
 
In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:47:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
carothersdl at gmail.com writes:

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two  burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky  they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been   shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask  permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and  they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.

**********
Dave,

Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door asking 
to use the phone for their broken down car?  

I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a 
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  meteorite story ever 
published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not typically 
stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.  
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything in print, 
just because it is in print.  

Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe they were  
unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  like and 
respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they did not 
belong there.  

*******************
Dave, you said:

Regarding the Judge and his "Get out of Dodge" statement.  That's  not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in  action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of  neighborhoods all the 
time.
 
********
Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase "Get 
the hell out of Dodge" in old western movies, usually relating  to Dodge City, 
Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges sitting on a 
bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is Hollywood's 
perspective always the way it really happens in  life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  simply 
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves  at 
the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say  
about anything he wanted.  
 
And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and  
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second time 
 around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.   

Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  "Re-elect Judge  Daniel, he's 
tough on space crime!" might be a good campaign  slogan.

***************

With regards to a land owner failing to  give you a reason why you couldn't 
search his property... what makes you  think he has an obligation to do so? 
It is enough that he owns the land and  has said "No".  With all due respect 
to you, persuing it further with  the man is pretty arrogant

Regards,

Dave

*********************
Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in conversations. 
 Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If 
someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those objections.  If 
you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often  times, 
people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  hard to 
find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will say they 
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate open and 
some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never letting 
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.  
But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is often 
hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.  

In West, I was  hunting with a group when we got permission to hunt on a guys 
land for a couple  of days.  At the end of the couple of days I asked if we 
could keep  hunting.  The man said "No, I told you that you could hunt for 2 
days, and  it has been two days."  His response seemed strange, so I engaged him 
as to  why?  A little later he expressed that his wife was nervous with 
strangers  on the property, and that she had gotten their pistol out and was 
keeping it on  the table to help with her nerves. 

Bingo.  The real reason.   Not that he wanted to be a jerk and kick us off 
after only 2 days, but he had a  real reason.  And a valid one I might point 
out.  I understood his  situation.  I told him that I wish we could hunt more, 
but that I  appreciated what time he gave us.   And I left.  No arrogance on  my 
part at all.  Maybe I could have tried to find a way to reassure him and  his 
wife, but I didn't feel like it was probably going to be productive.   Maybe 
later things would change, and I could go back and regain permission  later.  
I chose to humbly walk away glad I got to hunt at least a little  bit.

On the other hand, probably a full half of the land I got to hunt in  West 
was on land where the land owner first said no me, or they would have said  no 
if I had point blank asked them.  But after some dialog, they start to  get to 
know me, and I get to know them.  They usually have a genuine  concern, albeit 
sometimes founded on erroneous information.   I  explain how I will close the 
gates, or won't sue them if I get hurt, or just  that it would be a shame 
that the meteorites will be lost when their holes  fill up with mud after the 
next rain, etc.  When people find out I am nice  guy, not what they might have 
preconceived I would be like, they often change  their minds.  

In sales, it is said "When a prospect says 'NO' they  are often just saying 
'I don't KNOW enough to say yes... yet.'"  If  every car salesmen in the world 
took buyers at their word when they say "Just  looking" very few cars would 
get sold.  Is it arrogance that a car salesman  would think that a person on the 
dealer's lot might have some questions, some  objections to buying?  

Sure, some car salesmen are arrogant.   But just because a salesman engages a 
customer and flushes out their true  concerns, doesn't mean it is a bad 
thing.  In fact, arrogance and humility  aside, being able to overcome those 
objections is vital in the sales process.  

I know for a fact, that I got permission to hunt in West, and in other  
places as well, where other hunters failed, sometimes just days or hours before  I 
showed up.  You might call that arrogance, but I would beg to  differ.  I call 
it persistence.  And in the end, more times than not,  I have made a new 
friend, and the land owner feels good about letting me on to  hunt.   

I will even go a step further.  I think people do  the meteorite hunting 
community a disservice if they walk away from an initial  rejection without 
challenging, at least in a nice way, the misconceptions that  led to the denial of 
permission to hunt.   If the decisions are made  with faulty information, and 
those are not challenged, then people go on, often  propagating those feelings 
to others. 

And, I will clarify, that my "Aha  experience" happened in private, away from 
landowner.  Neither did me or my  friend accuse him of growing pot to his 
face.  But I guarantee that that  land owner knew when I left that I genuinely 
tried to understand WHY he was  taking his stance, even if he didn't want to 
share the real reasons for saying  no.

Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no?  Of course  not.  And 
did I even imply that he was obligated to?  But if you  don't ask, often you 
don't get an answer.  

Dave, I make a  living by engaging land owners and obtaining permission to 
hunt on their  ground.  It is probably safe to say that I have more signed 
"Meteorite  Leases" on file from different land owners than any other meteorite 
hunter in  the world.   One thing that makes people more nervous than giving  
people permission to hunt on their land is to have to read, interpret and sign a  
legally binding contract.  

Talk about raising objections!   

But I have made talking to the land owners, flushing out the real  objections 
and then overcoming their objections a high priority in my  business.  And 
that is why far more times than not, they end up signing the  contracts with me.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it.

But thank  you for your perspective.  Without you expressing your true 
feelings, I  would have never had the opportunity to explain this better, for you 
and the  list, and hopefully clear up any misunderstandings.

See?   Conversations can be good.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas




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