[meteorite-list] Fwd: getting oriented on orientation

[MeteorHntr at aol.com]

Darryl and All,

I think we all are frustrated when a rounded rocks (or even chunky not  even 
crusted fragments) are called "oriented."  It wastes time as we  look for why 
in the world it would be called "oriented" and it makes us wonder  "If they 
will lie about that, what else are they lying about?"
 
Maybe the solution is a list very similar to the one you gave, posted at  the 
IMCA website explaining what "Oriented" means, and how to self-diagnose an  
oriented meteorite.   A statement that all IMCA members agree to  "accurately 
describe" their meteorites could be given that page, and as such are  obligated 
to qualify any specimen as being oriented according to the guidelines  set 
forth. 
 
A simple asterisk* in a description, could lead the reader to a note at the  
bottom of the description to go to the IMCA website for further elaboration on 
 the explanation of what "Oriented" means.   That way paragraphs don't  have 
to be wasted on explaining everything, every time.   Of course if  one wanted 
to explain everything, it would be fine, and in some case worth the  effort 
when selling a valuable specimen.
 
I think if everyone started referencing a certain stated list of  qualifiers, 
then it would be far harder for charlatans to slide in and take  advantage of 
people.  It would be very hard for a person to reference  the listed 
characteristics of an oriented meteorite, then at the same time sell  a rock that does 
not meet ANY of those he just referenced. 
 
Doing field work I run into people all the time, who have found a rock that  
does not attract a magnet, that automatically think that qualifies the rock to 
 be an "even more valuable achondrite, probably a moon rock."   So,  they got 
the info SOMEWHERE that ~95% of meteorites will attract a magnet, but  5% 
won't.  
 
Having a posting, somewhere, I suggest the IMCA website, that defines what  
an oriented meteorite is, will probably take care of most of our problems.  
 
Then it still leaves it up to the individual to evaluate if a particular  
specimen is oriented or not, and if so, to what degree.
 
In reality, there are so many other factors that contribute to the bottom  
line value of a meteorite, not just if it is oriented or not.   Some  of those 
are:
 
Type of meteorite
Size of the meteorite
TKW of the fall
aesthetics of the specimen
condition
    weathering
    broken pieces
    % of crust
etc.
 
How a particular person will value the various above factors will  strongly 
effect the value of a particular rock.
 
If sellers and buyers alike, have a place to reference what are  
characteristics of an oriented meteorite, I think that is the best we can  do.  Trying to 
subjectively grade a meteorite is going to be hard.
 
Then if anyone goes against those standards, then we can call them on  it.  
 
Now, does anyone want to build a list of how to grade a crater???
 
Then we can move on to making a scale of how "Rare" a certain meteorite  is!
 
Steve Arnold
Arkansas
 
 
 

In a message dated 3/5/2008 3:14:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
darryl at dof3.com writes:
as previously mentioned, some of the guidelines used  to establish  
orientation should be weighted more heavily than  others.

when a stone is weathered, the only way to determine a high  degree of  
orientation would still be the reliance on the same  conventions to  
determine the extent of orientation.

for  example....a highly weathered meteorite's morphology exhibits an   
unmistakably curved parabolic surface, e.g., brenham main mass.   of  
course that should trump everything---the object is inarguably  highly  
oriented.

bottom line, if you can't discern for certain  whether the specimen is  
oriented per agreed upon guidelines, then you  can't state the object  
is oriented.  it's that simple. ('tis  frustrating to me when folks  
mention that willamette is oriented.  could have been. but it's  
unverifiable. so it's not.)

in  effect, what is implied with orientation is that if all of the   
characteristics which denote orientation are weathered away, no   
determination of orientation can or should be made on the most highly   
weathered material.  right?

all best / darryl
 



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