[meteorite-list] Steve Arnold's Famous Reverse Auction

Mon Apr 28 23:11:51 EDT 2008

Hi Darren,

You might get away with calling it a "Dutch Auction" by someone else's 
definition (wikipedia isn't always right? I dont know).

I've always thought of a Dutch Auction as being an auction where shares 
of items are available to several people and the successful lowest 
bidder determines the price they all get making everyone above him/her 
very happy as they did not pay their maximum offer.  What people do to 
liquidate companies in shares.  In the case it is a single item, I fail 
to see how the heart of the Dutch idea (where some people get a share 
of the item for less than they would have otherwise offered) is 
implemented.  It is in effect a Dutch Auction of one.  Kind of like 
your girlfriend saying, ok, let's do Dutch, but I won't show up, so all 
yopu have to do is pay your part.

The best parallel I can see is a "Going out of Business Sale", where 
things are marked down until they are all gone.  Those aren't called 
auctions, just sales...

The closest I remember for a Dutch Auction in the meteorite community 
was for Campo Sales, and more recently a Dutch Auction on "Mali".  Only 
in both cases, it would have been more fun for the higher buyers if 
they paid the lowest price, and not been clipped like a sinking stock.  
But they didn't, so they weren't really Dutch auctions.

If you wanted to make a meteorite auction a Dutch auction, I'd think 
you could cut up a hundred credit card sizes of Esquel.  The offer them 
Dutch, and the hundred buyers would pay the price of the 100th lowest 
bid and all would get them for less than they wanted.  If only 50 
people bid a hundred dollas each, and one bid one cent, for a total of 
51 bidders, all would walk off with a piece for $0.01 each.

This is not what Steve is doing.  It is a Dutch auction of 1 item which 
to me removes the auction just like a Dutch date of one person.  Why 
the need to call it any kind of auction?  When you buy a house at a 
buyers' auction, you compete with bidders to pay more but get a deal.  
When you have a Seller's auction, still my head hurts as to what that 
means.

Steve #1 is offering some good deals, that's what counts, all the 
dealers like to put on a show, so maybe some good deals will be 
available.  Darren, you say you aren't so interested. If there was a 
piece you always wanted going up under an "all pieces must go" sale, I 
think we could all be interested to follow up.

Finally, just for fun: Suppose you had an expensive meteorite.  For 
argument's sake, the Brenham oriented pallasite.  Suppose no one could 
afford the cash, but the finder wanted to sell out.  He could sell the 
piece in % and it could go on display in a museum for 5 years.  At 
which point it might be put up for sale, whether by some members buying 
out others, or to a third party.  Just a thought, though the claims 
would have to be careful not to represent it as a marketable investment 
- that s illegal for good reason.

Best wishes
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Steve Arnold's Famous Reverse Auction

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:23:15 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Of course that isnt how it works, so tell me how the
>lowest bidder get the piece? Just a scam, a gimmick,
>an auction that doesnt make sense.

I don't think what Steve is offering fits the definition of a reverse 
auction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_auction

I think what he means is still an auction where the highest bidder 
wins, except
that he doesn't know the inital asking price or what the other bidders 
offer.
And (maybe?) the top bidder pays his bid, and not the smallest 
increment above
the next highest bidder?

Personally, that wouldn't work for me-- I'm too much of a bargain 
hunter.  I
want to hear a price for something (or at least see what other people 
are
offering) and not just hear "how much will you give me?".

I was thinking "silent auction" is what Steve is wanting, but that term 
doesn't
seem to fit, either.  If it was as I was describing, it looks like it 
would be
a:

"Sealed-bid first-price auction: Also known as Sealed High-Bid Auction 
or
First-Price Sealed-Bid Auction (FPSB). In this type of auction all 
bidders
simultaneously submit bids so that no bidder knows the bid of any other
participant. The highest bidder pays the price they submitted. "

but, looking at the defintions, he might mean a:

"Dutch auction: In the traditional Dutch auction the auctioneer begins 
with a
high asking price, which is lowered until some participant is willing 
to accept
the auctioneer's price, or a predetermined minimum price is reached. 
The winning
participant pays the last announced price."

from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auction
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