[meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other meteorite names

Wed Apr 23 22:21:39 EDT 2008

Sorry if this a dumb suggestion but, I was just wondering what would  
be the chances of including an ongoing spelling/pronunciation feature  
on meteorite nomemclature in Meteorite each quarter, or a couple  
times a year possibly?

Mike

On Apr 23, 2008, at 5:24 PM, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

> Doug:
>
> We gringos (those white guys who live on the streets with Spanish  
> names
> here in Tucson) probably would get it correct (though you might  
> need to
> warn us where the place is).
>
> Larry
>
> On Wed, April 23, 2008 1:46 pm, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote:
>> Darren G. wrote:
>>
>>
>> "MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write down
>> the word "Allende" on a piece of paper.  Show it to every gringo  
>> you meet,
>> ask them how to pronounce it.
>>
>> Hey Darren, OK.  Those sly gr*ngos!!! I just did and tried.
>>
>>
>> They pronounced:
>> "All GIMEEE!!!!"
>>
>>
>> "Better yet, get the whitest looking guy you can find to ask
>> for you."
>>
>> OK - He said:
>> Me See-Ayyy-Eye", You GIMEE!!!
>>
>>
>> "I woud be shocked if anything more than a small minority of English
>> speakers got it right."
>>
>> Not too shocked, just warmly stirred ;)
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
>> To: Meteorite List <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:16 am
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pronouncing Willamette and other
>> meteorite names
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 02:45:25 -0700, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>> As for Allende, someone said there is nothing wrong
>>> With "Anglicizing" a word....You would have a VERY
>>> Difficult time living in So. CA - going to El Cajon (el ca hone)
>>> And La Jolla (la hoy ya) etc. Even in LA, they pronounce
>>> It "row DAY oh" Drive, not rodeo drive, as it was the Spanish
>>> Name place originally.
>>>
>>
>> You can pick and choose names that keep their original pronounciation
>> if you want.  But you can also pick and choose names that have been
>> Anglicized
>> if you want.  The point is, if a word LOOKS like it follows the  
>> spelling of
>> a "traditional" English word-- unless you have evidence  
>> otherwise-- you
>> will usually try to pronounce it as if it were a "traditional"  
>> English word
>>  (and the
>> same goes for non-English speakers, of course-- if the word LOOKS  
>> to fit
>> the conventions of your languge, I'll bet that, with no instruction
>> otherwise, you'll try to pronounce it according to the conventions  
>> of your
>>  language).  Your examples "El Cajon" and "La Jolla" look obviously
>> Spanish and not
>> English.  But
>> "Allende" looks like a perfectly cromulent English word-- you have,
>> Allentown,
>> PA, for example, not Ayantown, PA.  So "Allende" just didn't  
>> trigger an
>> alarm in my head to pronounce it differently-- I wasn't being  
>> contrary, it
>> simply never occured to me.
>>
>> MexicoDoug, try this little experiment while in the US-- write  
>> down the
>> word "Allende" on a piece of paper.  Show it to every gringo you  
>> meet, ask
>> them how to pronounce it.  Better yet, get the whitest looking guy  
>> you can
>> find to ask for you.  I woud be shocked if anything more than a small
>> minority of English
>> speakers got it right.
>>
>> Also, another issue, I've never heard the large majority of all
>> meteorite names (and, indeed, possibly the majority of all techinical
>> scientific terms, species names, etc that are well known to me)  
>> pronounced
>> aloud.  Except for those who are professionals in the field and/or  
>> go to
>> meteorite sales, I'd say that stands for most people who are  
>> hobbyists in
>> obscure fields that are mostly accessed through books and the  
>> internet,
>> without a local population of like-minded people to meet with.   
>> Back to
>> Williamette, the first (and only) time I have
>> ever heard that word spoken aloud was in that film Darrly Pitt had  
>> someone
>> put together-- that guy was pronouncing it right, I thought he was  
>> a rube
>> getting it wrong.
>>
>> Meteorites can come from anywhere in the world-- which means that you
>> are potentially faced with knowing the pronounciation rules/ 
>> phonics for any
>>  language in the world-- does that assume that we should be  
>> assumed to
>> know how all those other languages work when you just see the word in
>> print?  (And I shudder to think of a meteorite named in a Khoisan or
>> similar language that strays profoundly from Indo-European phonics--
>> "anyone have a partslice of
>> clickpopgulp?")
>>
>>> The problem with "Anglicizing" a word is two fold:
>>> 1) it assumes an ethnocentric approach to the word and
>>>
>>
>> So what?  If you get rid of all the words that have been adopted into
>> and modified to make English, you'll have-- well, I guess you'll have
>> nothing, English is such a mongrel.  Would you rather have English  
>> more
>> massively complicated with exceptions to spelling/pronounciation  
>> rules
>> than the chaos that it already is?  I've been reading and writing  
>> English
>> for all my life, and I still have to look up spellings of words  
>> (including
>> in this post) because of the mess that English conventions are.
>> Pronouncing the names of all
>> foreign cities and countries the same way the natives do in their  
>> language
>> would take massive effort.
>>
>>> Anyway, of course, you can call your mother or father's sister
>>> "ant" or "aunt" and people will understand.... But one is correct  
>>> and
>>> One is less so.
>>>
>>
>> Right-- "ant" is correct.  Only losers pronounce the silent "u".
>>
>>
>> (Myself, I always wonder how the word "o-rang-utan" to most people is
>> pronounced "arang-atang")
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>
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